Literally Every Single Question You've Ever Had About Your Scalp, Answered

Woman with curly hairWoman with curly hair

In case you missed it, your scalp is having a moment.

And about time - it's the same as the skin on your face, after all. (We know, mind blowing.)

In 2020, there have never been more scalp care products on the market, which got us thinking about that bit of skin under our hair we've never really considered before.

So, we asked Philip Kingsley trichologist (aka a hair doctor) Dr Lisa Caddy to answer every single question we've ever had about our scalp, because we figure you've probably wondered about it, too. Here are her answers.

FYI, you can listen to Hannah and Jo talk all things scalp health with a dermatologist in this episode of the Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast below!

Is the Skin on My Scalp the Same as the Skin on My Face?

"The structure of the skin is basically the same as the structure of the scalp. However, the scalp has more sebaceous (oil) glands and more sweat glands, which means it gets dirty easily. There are also different scalp skin types, varying from more oily to very dry and scalp eczema," Dr Caddy said.

Does Your Scalp Need to 'Breath'?

"I’ve never been asked this question and in all honesty, I’m not sure I know the answer... other than it needs to be clean to be healthy…??!!"

Why Is My Scalp Itchy and Flaky?

"Most people will develop dandruff at some time or another, which is just an increase in skin cell turnover, showing as small white flakes in your hair and on your clothes. This can be due to hormonal changes, dietary factors, changes in weather or irregular shampooing habits."

"However, dandruff isn’t typically itchy and so if mild flaking is accompanied by itching, soreness, a build up of large flakes or a burning sensation, this may be a seborrhoeic (oily) eczema or psoriasis, which are the most common scalp conditions."

What Does Your Scalp Say About Your Health?

Dr Caddy told us your scalp actually says a fair bit about your overall health.

"For example, someone with a very oily scalp which may have pimples, spots and yellow heads may be suffering from a hormonal imbalance such as PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). A flaky, dry or inflamed scalp could be an indicator the person has inflammation in the body."

Do I Really Need to Use Scalp Scrubs? If So, What Ingredients Should I Be Looking For?

Christoph Robin Scalp ScrubChristoph Robin Scalp Scrub

"If you suffer from a flaky or oily scalp, then a scalp exfoliator can be really beneficial to give your scalp a deep cleanse and detox."

"Scalp exfoliators that contain non-abrasive ingredients such as BHAs and zinc give the scalp a deep cleanse and balance out sebum production."

Best Scalp Products.

Jumping in here for a second to share a list of some of our favourite scalp hair care products we've been trialling and loving recently:

Coco & Eve Scalp ScrubCoco & Eve Scalp Scrub

Can Your Scalp Health Affect How Your Hair Looks?

Dr Caddy said, "Poor scalp health can hinder optimal hair growth and also be a cause of increased hair shedding. If hair isn’t shampooed frequently (daily or alternate days) then sweat, oil, dead skin cells, pollution and styling products can all build up on the hair, leaving it dull and lifeless."

What About the Scalp and Hair Loss?

"The hair follicle is a function of the skin, each one has its own blood supply and is very influenced by its environment (the scalp). Poor scalp health is detrimental to hair growth. Scalp conditions, which are inflamed, flaky and itchy, can be a trigger for hair shedding."

Are There Different Types of Hair Loss?

"There are many causes for hair loss. One of the most common is excessive hair shedding (telogen effluvium), which is a temporary hair loss condition, as well as female pattern hair loss (knows as androgenetic alopecia or genetic hair loss)."

"Excessive hair shedding can be triggered by nutritional status (low iron levels, for example), weight loss, thyroid disturbance and hormonal changes, such as after having a baby, among others. Female pattern hair loss is a genetic condition which can be triggered at pregnancy and, more commonly, menopause."

What Treatments Do You Recommend for Hair Loss?

"Understanding the type of hair loss you have (with the help of an expert) can point you in the right direction for appropriate treatments. For genetic hair loss, the most common and effective treatment is Minoxidil, which can produce hair growth and improve density."

"When it comes to excessive hair shedding, supplements may be useful as quite often the cause is nutritional. Products that contain stimulating ingredients like the Philip Kingsley Exfoliating Scalp Mask (2 pack) and Philip Kingsley Flaky Itchy Scalp Toner can also help to reduce the level of hair shedding and optimise scalp health."

Biggest Hair Washing/Scalp Myths?

"One of the most common myths is that if you leave your hair long enough it will ‘self clean’. We know that our scalp skin and facial skin are basically the same in terms of structure and behaviour, and we know that our face doesn’t wash itself... which can only mean one thing..."

How Often Should You Wash Your Hair?

"Daily shampooing can be really necessary for many people, especially if they have fine hair as it gets greasy quickly. Alternate days is also a good alternative, but I wouldn’t recommend leaving it longer than three days, even for people with more coarse or very curly hair."

What Do You Wish More People Knew About Their Scalp?

Finally, Dr Caddy added, "I wish everyone knew that hair health and growth can be influenced by the health of their scalp. The scalp is living tissue and every hair follicle is a function of the scalp. Therefore, it's definitely not something we should neglect just because we can’t see it!"

There you have it, all your questions about your scalp, answered!

Want more helpful articles on hair and scalp health? Check out these from our Adore Beauty team!


Want to learn more? Here's the transcript of our Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast episode on scalp health.

We asked our trusty dentist, Dr Madeleine Duff about teeth grinding and clenching. Plus! Dermatologist Dr Leona Yip schools us on all the finer details about your scalp.

Beauty IQ Uncensored Episode 52 Transcript - 'Sorting Out Your Scalp With A Dermatologist'

 

Hannah Furst:
Welcome everybody to Beauty IQ, the podcast.

Joanna Flemming:
I am your host, Joanna Flemming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your co-host, Hannah Furst. Just want to quickly get it out of the way, that I just had a little cry on the phone before we started recording and now I'm okay.

Joanna Flemming:
We're okay.

Hannah Furst:
I'm like, "hi, I'm fine. I'm totally fine."

Joanna Flemming:
I think it's really important to point that out though, because I think a lot of the time, especially with pieces of media, people just think that you're happy all the time when you're putting stuff... And we're always laughing and stuff, but it is good to see that... actually, you know what that reminds me of? That video that Lily Brown did recently with her mum?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, I loved that!

Joanna Flemming:
And she left the part in about her being in tears before they were recording. I think that really just goes to show that you don't actually know what's going on behind the scenes. So yeah, anywho.

Hannah Furst:
Anywho.

Joanna Flemming:
Moving on.

Hannah Furst:
Okay.

Joanna Flemming:
We're okay.

Hannah Furst:
So we're fine. But I do finally have something. I've been saving all of my stuff because we never have anything to talk about. I've been saving it up. So the listeners might not be aware, but I'm obsessed with the new Bachelor, Locky.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes.

Hannah Furst:
I haven't been watching it because I honestly find about-

Joanna Flemming:
Neither have I.

Hannah Furst:
I haven't been watching it. But people have been sending me updates about Locky.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
So someone sent me this DM. Because you know how he lives in Bali half the year, and I always talk about moving to Thailand, but look Bali's fine with me. So someone sent me an inbox message and said, I posted a story saying, "Wow! Wish I'd applied to 2020 Bachelor." And this person said, "Nah, don't even joke anymore. I'm actually glad that you didn't. Locky literally is your guy. Living in bloody Bali half the year. Low key hope no one wins, so you could go for the kill."

Joanna Flemming:
Hope he does a Honey Badger. Remember that season where he didn't pick either of them?

Hannah Furst:
And then someone sent me another message, or sent me a photo, of him on The Bachelor going, "He has to have the TV on to go to sleep. He really is your perfect match."

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, he's your soulmate for sure.

Hannah Furst:
I know. So, basically, I think he's my soulmate.

Joanna Flemming:
If anyone knows Locky personally, can you please get in touch with him and just let him know that his soulmate is actually on the outside world and her name is Hannah Furst. And she's on Bumble.

Hannah Furst:
If you know him, can you please send him, I think it's Episode Four, and I talk about my beard

Joanna Flemming:
Or this episode.

Hannah Furst:
Because I was once on a date and someone was like, "Yeah, I listened to the one about your beard," and I was like, "Oh my God."

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I love that though, because then there's... Everything's on the table. You're not trying to go through that awkward phase where you pretend you don't poo or anything.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. I think it might be Episode... yeah episode six.

Hannah Furst:
Hannah discusses all things she's learning about having facial hair. And discovered there's a silver lining to every story. The silver lining, Locky, because I shave the bottom half of my face it exfoliates that area, so I may age at a slower rate.

Joanna Flemming:
We really have shared a lot of (beep) haven't we?

Hannah Furst:
I don't even know what's on this episode, episode 52.

Joanna Flemming:
So, on this episode.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, What's on this episode?

Joanna Flemming:
Thanks Hannah. On this episode, we are talking about teeth clenching. As we promised a few episodes ago, we're also speaking to Dr. Leona Yip about scalp health, and of course our products we didn't know we needed.

Joanna Flemming:
So Hannah, when we did your episode about your sleep hygiene routine, we did mention teeth clenching or grinding because I've personally suffered from this. Same kind of situation as you, where I was in a stressful job and I was really worried about it, and I kept waking up with a really stiff jaw and a massive headache. Have you ever grinded your teeth?

Hannah Furst:
No. My sister does.

Joanna Flemming:
Does she do anything for it or just comes and goes?

Hannah Furst:
I think she was interested in trying Botox. You'll talk about that later. I'm sure.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. I will. So I asked... Remember how we had Dr Madeleine Duff on, who's a dentist?

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Joanna Flemming:
And funnily enough, she actually knows your sister.

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Joanna Flemming:
So I asked her a bit about grinding because I thought it'd be worth us talking about on here because, as you just mentioned, Botox is a form of treatment for it; but it's actually called bruxism. So that refers to clenching and grinding of the teeth, but people can experience both clenching and grinding or only one of the two. So there are a little bit different.

Joanna Flemming:
But you can also do it when you're awake. So it doesn't just happen when you're asleep, which is what I thought. I always like woke up with it, but apparently you can also do it while you're awake and not realise you're doing it. They say some people experience that too, but it generally, as she said, is caused by periods of stress and anxiety, and it can also be linked with the position of your teeth and jaw, and that may not have a triggering factor at all. It might just happen to you. But I wondered if it was actually really bad for your teeth because I've heard of people getting splints, and I think one of the girls in our team has a splint and she's also tried Botox as well, but I wondered what the effects were. And it turns out there is quite a few side effects from ongoing teeth grinding and some of those are like sensitive, chipped, cracked, loose teeth.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my god.

Joanna Flemming:
I never experienced any of that but I did get the really sore, tired jaw, and Madeline actually said she was a clencher, and before she had a splint, or studied dentistry to understand what was going on, she used to avoid eating things like steak or sourdough bread because the chewing was too much and her jaw would get really sore just from the chewing, which I can totally relate to. Cause that's happened to me as well. Sometimes when I'm eating a piece of bread, I'm like, "Oh, when's this going to be over?" it's time to...

Joanna Flemming:
So it can also lead to, as I said, that the chipped in crap teeth, but you can also get the headaches, and jaw aches and general tooth wear, but also that enlarge jaw muscle, which, if you think of Brad Pitt clenching down, you get quite a squared off jaw. But over a long period of time, people that do grind can get that enlarge or muscle there.

Joanna Flemming:
And so there's a few different ways that you can treat teeth grinding. And as we said, Botox is one of them. Now that's not necessarily suitable for everyone, but what happens is you inject the Botox into the masseter muscle, which is that muscle that you can feel when you clench your jaw and that disables that muscle and relaxes it so that you can no longer really clenched down super hard on it, but a secondary effect of that apart from helping the grinding, it actually does also slim out the Jaw line as well, which you can really notice quite drastically in some people I've seen some like hectic before and afters of that, but it is like sometimes used as a cosmetic thing, but also for the grinding, and then also a splint.

Hannah Furst:
They'd have to use a lot of Botox, though, wouldn't they? They'd be like a lot of mls?

Joanna Flemming:
Good question. I'm not sure how much they use it would depend on the injector.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So I believe that it's a very... I don't think it's the super cheap option.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh no, definitely not. It definitely wouldn't be cheap, but if you were really struggling with it in a splint, which is like a custom made night guard for your teeth, if that wasn't working for you, then you could opt for looking into Botox and asking your dentist about it, which you should always do to make sure that it's the right thing for you.

Joanna Flemming:
But the splint protects your teeth by stopping the tooth on tooth action from the clenching and grinding. So that helps to reduce and balance the amount of force on your teeth. So it takes off that pressure that you're putting on your teeth. And then another thing which she also mentioned was physio or osteo. So she often discusses that with her patients who are experiencing that real jaw pain and getting the headaches and stuff. And I did also read...

Joanna Flemming:
Remember how we did that episode with Nicola Joss about the facial massage? I learned that apparently head and neck physios do a lot of that massage technique and even go inside your mouth sometimes to reduce things like TMJ, which can be related to grinding and that kind of stuff. So there's a few different options there. I personally just went out of that really stressful period and came through the other side and I just stopped doing it. But if you find that it's just persistent and ongoing; I think for some people it's just, it never goes away; they just continually do it. I don't know if that means they're always like stressed, but for me it was just for that small period of time, and I didn't really need to do anything about it. But I think being aware that there are some quite big side effects from it on your teeth, just to be aware of it, if it is ongoing and you're waking up with that headache, because sometimes I'd wake up in the morning and just be like, "Oh my God, I can't" it hurts so much.

Joanna Flemming:
And just that really sore jaw as well. I think anyone who's experienced it before understand exactly what I'm talking about. I'm surprised we haven't experienced it though. Cause you've had so many issues with your sleep.

Hannah Furst:
I've had two issues. One is my gum, I haven't flossed enough.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, that's right. You said something about that before.

Hannah Furst:
I basically was having real issues; if you've had braces, you'll know that you get the permanent plates put in, and I was finding them a bit irritating. I'd had them on for like 10 years or something. So I had them taken out and within a couple of months, my teeth started to move; the bottom teeth.

Joanna Flemming:
I did the same thing last year and my teeth completely moved.

Hannah Furst:
Well, I then straight away went back to the orthodontist, had them put back in.

Joanna Flemming:
Aw, really?

Hannah Furst:
But the issue with them is that you've got to get this special floss that you thread through. It is so uncomfortable/.

Joanna Flemming:
That's why I had mine removed. Cause I was like, "I can't floss my teeth properly." My front teeth getting sensitive from it, I think, so I had it taken off.

Hannah Furst:
Wow.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, I didn't know you could get floss for it.

Hannah Furst:
I really find that flossing to be a really, I don't know if anyone else experiences this, but it's quite a bloody affair.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I don't think I go that hard.

Hannah Furst:
I don't know what... Am I doing something-

Joanna Flemming:
It's just some people get bloodier gums than others?

Hannah Furst:
Anyway. Look, I don't have this issue specifically, but you all know that I had an extra tooth growing in the middle of my palette which I had to get removed.

Joanna Flemming:
I feel like another topic we should talk about is taking out your retainer or your Invisalign or your splint in the morning, like that disgusting... Do you remember having your retainer when you got your braces off? That was foul. And I feel like people that are currently doing Invisalign and stuff will definitely relate to that. So maybe retainer smell is another cringey convo for another day.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, that is so dandruff.

Joanna Flemming:
Please let us know if you'd like us to do that, we'll get a guest on or someone that has experience that.

Joanna Flemming:
Today's guest is here to talk to us about scalp issues, which, Hannah, we've both experienced at some point. We've had discussions about Dandruff and scalp problems before. Our guest today is dermatologist Dr Leona Yip from Skin Partners in Brisbane. Leona, a lot of us probably haven't thought about it this way, but our scalp is essentially an extension of our face, isn't it? So how important is scalp care and scalp health?

Dr Leona Yip:
Thanks for having me in your show. Yes. This is actually a topic that's not been talked about enough, and the scalp is actually quite similar to the scalp skin in that the pH level of 5.5, they do share this similarly, slightly acidic, pH. The scalp also has a high concentration of hair follicles, sweat glands, oil glands that produce sebum. The main difference is there are, actually, no underlying muscles under the scalp, unlike on the face where you've gone muscles for facial expression, to talk, and to chew, and that's why you get deep wrinkles because that reflects that dynamic movement of these muscles. So therefore you don't tend to get deeper wrinkles on the scalp surface. Now conditions that affect the facial skin can also commonly affect the scalp; such as eczema, psoriasis, seborrheic dermatitis, acne, and folliculitis. So yes, looking after the scalp is just as important as facial skin.

Joanna Flemming:
That's so interesting. I never thought about it that way, with the lack of muscles on your scalp.

Hannah Furst:
So if our scalp is in bad shape, what kind of issues might we be experiencing?

Dr Leona Yip:
So when the scalp's unhealthy, I think we can broadly classify this into four main causes. The first is when there's a scalp barrier dysfunction problem. And what this means is if the oil seal on the scalp, made up of barrier proteins and lipids like ceremonies, for example, if that's not working properly, the scalp tends to be prone to dryness, flaking, and some irritation, and that could lead to conditions like scalp eczema. And the second broad cause that's quite common is immune mediated inflammation that could lead to conditions such as scalp psoriasis. And the third broad cause is an abnormality in the scalp microbiome balance. So these could lead to conditions like scalp dandruff, and seborrheic dermatitis and folliculitis for example.

Dr Leona Yip:
And lastly: sun damage. So this is something that I find a lot of people don't tend to think about. Lots of people do not think about wearing hats, and it's really important because sun can cause this generalised redness on the scalp that can be stingy, or burning, or itchy. It can also cause sunspots and skin cancers in the longer term. Now scalp conditions that are not treated can lead to symptoms like itching and burning, like I've said before, but also it could lead to hair shedding, more generalised shedding, and in areas of the scalp, say, for example, localised eczema, localised psoriasis, that's not treated, you could also get patchy hair-loss in these particular areas.

Hannah Furst:
Joe, have you experienced a... I've had a burnt skull. I wear hats now.

Joanna Flemming:
The burnt part is the worst. How bad is it!

Hannah Furst:
But then the peeling, and the flaking afterwards. Oh my God. I loved that you said that about hats because I feel like on this podcast, we talk a lot about wearing sunscreen on your face, and then we actually forget that we also need to protect our scalp because I can imagine that it would be much harder to uncover, I guess, moles in your scalp?

Dr Leona Yip:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, I see skin checks day in, day out to check the skin cancers, and lots of people say to me, "Why are you looking at my scalp?" But people don't realise that maybe when they were a child, the hairs were parted differently, so the hair part gets a lot of sun and as people get older, they start to lose a little bit more hair and more of that protection. People can also get melanomas. 5% of melanomas can appear in areas without previous sun exposure. So yes, you can get skin cancers on the scalp and looking after it is really important. And also one point that people often don't think about is excessive sun exposure can damage your hair structure also, and that's thing to think about; it prematurely ages your scalp skin, as well as your hairs.

Hannah Furst:
So interesting. You mentioned dandruff. What are the best ways to treat scalp flakiness caused by general dandruff?

Dr Leona Yip:
What causes dandruff firstly, I think is an important point to understand so we know how to treat it. Dandruff is caused by an abnormal scalp microbiome. So the yeast's called Malassezia, which is part of the scalp microbiome. There's an overgrowth of this on the scalp that causes that flaking that you see as dandruff. So when we treat it, it's twofold. The first is to try and control the proportions of this yeast using anti-dandruff shampoos with anti-yeast ingredients, and the second component of treatment is to try and control or remove that scaling problem. And we do that by using chemical exfoliants, such as [inaudible 00:15:39] shampoos, and salicylic acid creams. In mild cases, these products will be enough without seeing a doctor, but for more severe or long-standing cases, I would strongly suggest for people to see their GP or see a dermatologist for stronger prescription-based treatments that can help you.

Joanna Flemming:
And you mentioned dermatitis and psoriasis as some common scalp issues. What's the difference between those two? And do you treat them differently?

Dr Leona Yip:
Seborrheic dermatitis and psoriasis are actually two of the commoner conditions that we see in our specialty and they both can look quite similar. They both present with scaling and crusting as well as underlying scalp inflammation. Often they can be easily told apart with trained eyes, but sometimes there can be an overlap of these two conditions, and then it is called Sebopsoriasis. Sebopsoriasis... If you imagine cradle cap in a baby, that's usually how it would look like; yellowy, sticky, scales and crusts that are quite difficult to remove from the scalp and underlying that would be some scalp inflammation. Sebopsoriasis also affects the T zone of the face, if you like, so skin between the eyebrows, on the eyebrows themselves, as well as the crease beside your nose where it meets your cheeks, and the beard area.

Dr Leona Yip:
For psoriasis, the scales tend to be silvery white in colour, it could be powdery, and often it can also be sheets of silvery, white scales that you can pee from the scalp. Underlying these scales, that are also sticky, that will be scalp inflammation, and psoriasis tends to be a more widespread condition that can affect other areas of your skin. How we treat these conditions: the two broad components, the first is to remove as much of the scaling and crusting as possible because if we don't that second component of treatment will not work well, and the second component is to treat the underlying inflammation. So coming back to the first, which is removing scaling, we use chemical exfoliating treatments either tar based or silicic acid based products. For treating underlying inflammation, we generally would start off with topical steroids, usually, lotions on the scalp, especially when there are hairs, and these products are usually prescribed by your GP or your dermatologist. In severe cases, we would need to use tablet treatments, and this is something that your doctor should be able to discuss with you.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay, and as a dermatologist, which ingredients do you find are best and worst for this scalp?

Dr Leona Yip:
That is a very good question, and I wish I knew the answer, but unfortunately ,in reality, unlike skincare products, there's not that much robust research out there about what is best for your scalp, what are the best scalp cosmeceuticals, so to speak, and therefore it's really difficult to recommend because there really isn't that evidence-based. The important thing to know is we have to try and restore the skin barrier function as much as possible, just like for the skin. So that helps to prevent scalp dryness and scalp flaking and irritation, and in fact, scalp dryness is probably one of the commonest incidental observations that I see examining scalps in most of my patients. So if you could get products, firstly, which are more pH neutral, or slightly acidic between pH four to seven, that would be more within the natural environment for the scalp and your hairs.

Dr Leona Yip:
So besides preventing scalp, dryness and flaking, you hairs also prefer products that are slightly acidic, and so that would help reduce hair friction and frizz. If you could find products with ingredients such as ceramides, which are natural skin lipids, as well as niacinamide, which is vitamin B three, these ingredients can help restore skin barrier function and niacinamide also has anti-inflammatory properties. In terms of products that are worst for the scalp, so to speak, or that we do not usually recommend; products which have essential oils as well as fragrances. Now as a general rule for the scalp and skin dermatologists would recommend that people stick to products that are hypoallergenic, fragrance-free, and non-comedogenic. And non-comedogenic just means it does not clog the skin pores.

Dr Leona Yip:
Essential oils, despite it being marketed as natural and safe, we commonly see people's skin and scalp getting sensitised to these natural fragrances, and essences, and oils that unfortunately end up causing allergic reactions on the scalp. And therefore it's best avoided and also avoiding really greasy and thick formulations that can clog the skin pores and the hair follicles on the scalp that can lead to conditions like acne and folliculitis.

Hannah Furst:
Now onto, I guess, what I'm really interested to know, which is about growing healthy hair. So I'm at the moment, as Joe knows... The last time I tried to grow my hair, it was a total mess. It was dead. It was like dead hair, basically. Are there any methods you recommend for stimulating or encouraging that healthy hair growth?

Dr Leona Yip:
Looking after your scalp itself is incredibly important because that's where your blood flow comes from, that's where your hair follicles actually live. So if there's any underlying scalp inflammation or scalp conditions, make sure that's treated optimally, and if it's lingering, it will go on to affect your hairs. So don't delay seeking medical help from your GP or from a dermatologist if your scalp condition does not get better because there is a flow on effect to your hairs. So how about procedures? Microneedling is quite an interesting one, which I think is helpful for some people. There is a small body of evidence that would support microneedling as a procedure to stimulate hair growth, and what this procedure involves is using a little device with tiny little needles to cause wound micro channels on the scale, and by causing these little micro wounds, the surrounding skin through the wound-healing process releases, growth factors and chemicals that can stimulate hair growth.

Dr Leona Yip:
Procedures, such as lasers; I know some clinics around the world, around Australia offer laser treatments to promote hair growth but the problem with is in the many types of laser devices, and a lot of them also emit different energy levels, and therefore results can be quite variable and results really differ significantly from person to person. And the interesting procedure PRP, that's platelet rich plasma, that is really the hype and lots of people know about it. They do ask me about it. This is a relatively new procedure that's only been used to treat hair loss in the recent few years. I would say it's more an adjuvant treatment rather than a mainstream treatment. Again, it doesn't work for everybody. And the reason why it doesn't work is because it's really dependent on who does the treatment, also what machines they have and how frequently they inject. So there's a lot of variation in it and therefore results are also very different from person to person.

Dr Leona Yip:
Medications is the last thing I want to touch on. By far, this is probably the method that offers most consistent and reliable results. Medication to treat hair loss again, twofold, number one is to prevent further shedding and for the thinning, and the second is to promote regrowth. And these are usually either tablet-based medicines or topical treatments that can be applied to the scalp, and this would need to be discussed with your dermatologist because it would also depend on whether it is safe for you to take depending on your health issues.

Hannah Furst:
Now we've spoken, on a previous episode, with a trichologist about hair loss, and you've mentioned hair loss a little bit in that previous answer; would you have any advice for anyone that's currently experiencing postpartum hair loss?

Dr Leona Yip:
Postpartum and patent hair loss are two separate conditions, but commonly we see them overlap postpartum hair loss, for those of you who are not aware, that causes reactive shedding, which is temporary, and that's called telogen effluvium. We also see telogen effluvium as a reaction to stress such as psychological stress or physical stress on the body, like [inaudible 00:23:51] and a surgery, for example. Postpartum hair loss tends to happen two to three months after childbirth, and the shedding can last for a few months before things stabilise and the hair start to regrow again.

Dr Leona Yip:
When has regrown, normally it grows one centimetre a month. So to drop a fringe, this would take you a year. To get to hair lengths, which is much longer, it would take you quite a few years. And so for those women who undergo successive pregnancies and successive childbirth, before your hairs can fully recover to the length that it was before, if you keep getting successive shedding, then obviously that is just going to affect how it recovers.

Dr Leona Yip:
And it may never recover fully. Moreover, there are many people who are prone genetically to develop hair thinning that can start at any age, and often we would see overlap between hair shedding, postpartum, shedding, as well as pattern hair loss. Pattern hair loss presents with thinning of the hair. Whitening of the hairline. And your hair diameters will appear and feel finer, and thinner, than what they used to be. Now it can also present with episodic bursts of shedding. So shedding on its own, you can't really tell the difference sometimes, whether it's postpartum or pattern hair loss, and you may need to be assessed by a dermatologist.

Dr Leona Yip:
For those who are quite happy that their shedding is settling, after about six to nine months after childbirth, no treatment is usually needed, but if you feel that it's not fully recovered and your hair... Your ponytail volume, which is a good measure of recovery in the longer term, if you feel that this is not what it used to be, and you're starting to be concerned about this, a dermatologist or other professionals, like trichologist, may be able to help you. For pattern hair loss; this is a condition which is gradually progressive. You're not going to go bald, and this is one thing in the world, very rarely, that people can say, you're guaranteed not to go bold with pattern hair loss, unlike in men, you do get patches of baldness, but not in women. So with the pattern hair loss problem, it's over years or over months, rather than over weeks, if you would like to treat this, it usually would be tablet-based medicines in the longer term.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, really interesting information.

Hannah Furst:
I just want to know what some of your favourite scalp and hair products are.

Dr Leona Yip:
That's a really good question.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, what would you use on yourself?

Dr Leona Yip:
As a specialist, it's difficult for me to recommend brands, but it's also equally difficult if I don't mention brand names that can help people look for products that suit their scalp. I, myself, use L'Oreal I'm not paid to say the name. L'Oreal has got certain ranges, either commercially available through supermarkets, or they have got professional ranges, like the L'Oreal professional and L'Oreal Kérastase range, that have more specific Products that are suited to different scalp and different hair-types. So, that's one range that people can explore. Again, just like skincare, it's really difficult to recommend products because everyone's scalps are different.

Hannah Furst:
Oh no, I think you're right, 'cause I use Kérastase and, actually, we had a trichologist on the podcast who recommended Kérastase too. So I was just interested to know if you would say that without me asking. 'Cause phew, because I've used Kérastase. I like that their range has different ranges for different concerns, and so depending on what concerns I've had used different products. So good to know. Thank you.

Joanna Flemming:
Awesome. Thanks for your time today, Leona, it was nice to chat to you. Bye

Joanna Flemming:
Products we didn't know we needed. Hannah, what is yours today?

Hannah Furst:
Well, I'm actually... Have run out of product, so I'm doing-

Joanna Flemming:
Never thought that day would arrive.

Hannah Furst:
... So Joe and I went to this breakfast morning with Aveda to launch their new repair range, which by the way, I've tried the mask and I love it, but we don't actually sell the product I'm going to be talking about but-

Joanna Flemming:
Tennis warehouse might have it.

Hannah Furst:
No, I don't think... they definitely don't.

Joanna Flemming:
They don't! They don't!

Hannah Furst:
I'm actually... So what happened was, we got this beautiful box of the Botanical Repair™ range, which I'm using at the moment. Love it. But we also got as part of that pack, we got some tea and so I don't really drink tea, but my dad is a tea fanatic. He loves tea, I think more than you Joe. So I gave him the tea and I was like, look, I don't really drink tea. I just gave it to him not thinking he'd do anything about it, but anyway, yeah. Send me an email with the line. "Hi everyone..."

Joanna Flemming:
Did he expect you to read it out on the podcast? What? Did he think you were going to put a review on the side?

Hannah Furst:
I've copied and pasted it. You can see how long it is. So Basically the product I didn't know I needed is my dad's and it's for the Aveda Comforting Tea. So he said, "If you're a tea fan, like me, and spend hundreds of dollars a year at T2 and scan supermarket shelves and groceries for exciting new tea blends to get your thrills, then you'll know that it isn't easy finding something that you like. So the challenge is getting flavour, comfort and satisfaction. I get so bored with virtually tasteless teas. Let's take lemon, grass and ginger. Typically, available along with camomile at your local cafe, you can barely taste it. They never use enough. It's insipid. You might as well pay $4 for a cup of hot water-"

Joanna Flemming:
I totally agree with that. [crosstalk 00:29:22].

Hannah Furst:
So then he says, "so it was great to test Aveda's new Comforting Tea." He says, "it has a prominent nutrition label, which is a bit pointless really, since it has no nutritional value whatsoever, every single one says zero. Zero protein, sugar, carbs, fat, salt. There is literally nothing in these products. Because it contains licorice, there's a warning that if you are pregnant, you should avoid excessive consumption. Who knew herbal teas could be so dangerous." So that's his... It was a very, very, very long review.

Joanna Flemming:
I love that.

Hannah Furst:
The summary is that he loves it.

Joanna Flemming:
Amazing.

Hannah Furst:
He was very surprised and refreshed. And yeah, so I didn't really have much else. I mean, really it was a bit of a shout out to evaders Botanical Repair™ range, 'cause-

Joanna Flemming:
But also to Rob, because I feel he doesn't get as much attention as Linda on this podcast and I think maybe he just, he just saw an opening for himself and he thought, "let me take it".

Hannah Furst:
Totally. Do you know what's so funny? I'll get a message from Megan, who manage our Instagram account, and she'll be like... There'll be like 50 notifications from my dad's Instagram account, he's liked the last 50 posts from Adore Beauty in a row. Jeez like, clogging up our notifications. Sorry. That was a very long and convoluted product. But thanks dad.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Love it. Thank you for the comprehensive review. It's very much appreciated. So my product this week is a candle. Now this candle is limited edition because it is one of the Glasshouse, Halloween candles. It's the spellbound candle. I mean, I might be wrong here, but I think they usually only do one limited edition Halloween candle, but this year they've done two and I really, really loved this one. I think you said you like the pumpkin pie one recently, didn't you?

Hannah Furst:
Pumpkin pie. Yes.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. So I remembered you saying that recently. I don't know if it was on here or if it was just... We were talking about it separately, but anyway, I got the other one and it is exactly the kind of candle that I go for, and when I went and looked at the description, I was like, that makes total sense.

Joanna Flemming:
It says "A smokey floral and burnt Amber candle." And that is exactly the kind of thing that explains to the kind of candle that I like. So it's got base notes of leather, vanilla and patchouli and then heart notes of amber, violet and peony, and Head notes of peach and plum. I don't know what any of that really means. Go back and listen to episode with Michael Edwards to learn a bit more about fragrance, but it does have a little bit of floralness to it when you light it. But it's also got that like Woody, almost masculine, as well at the same time. It is a beautiful candle has really nice packaging as well. It's kind of like a cosmic themed... But yeah, it is limited edition. So get your hands on it while you can. And if you're listening to this in years time, then you're probably not going to be able to get it. But yeah, that's my top tip to you.

Hannah Furst:
I had a screenshot of someone who sent me a message about; remember how we had that conversation about hot man smell.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Did someone tell you what it was?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, She collects fragrances. "Hey, just finishing listening to your episode. I collect fragrances as a hobby. We call barbershop fragrance as fougere." What the hell's fougere? Let me just double check that.

Joanna Flemming:
How's it spelled?

Hannah Furst:
F O U G E R E pronounced [fu.ʒɛʁ], fougere got it. It comes from the French language for fern. so it's actually a fragrance.

Joanna Flemming:
Really? The hot mans smell's actually a fragrance.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, here we go. So she says it's a combination of lavender, Oakmoss and couma- coumarin? I don't know how to say these words! All right, that's the hot man smell. I'm so glad we got to the bottom of this. There's certain fragrances that fall into that... It says here, I'm just on Wikipedia by the way, this is not from some scientific journal about fragrance. It's just Wikipedia.

Joanna Flemming:
It's Wikipedia, not a scientific journal.

Hannah Furst:
Eternity for Men, by Calvin Klein, Boss by Hugo boss.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, okay then definitely.

Hannah Furst:
Dolce & Gabbana Pour Homme.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, so basically, that's the smell.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, and it means fern in French,

Joanna Flemming:
Well, now we can start using the proper name instead of saying hot man smell.

Hannah Furst:
Hot man smell. I prefer hot man smell, so that's just me, though.

Joanna Flemming:
Same. Actually, you know what I did? I did screenshot another DM that we got to both of us and she wrote, "A bit random, but I thought you guys might appreciate my beautiful 100 year old great Nanna's skin. She told me to tell you ladies to stay out of the sun and wear SPF, which I know you already do. Back then, obviously, she didn't cleanse or use face oils. However, it just goes to show how much SPF and staying out of the sun does. PS this photo was taken on her hundredth birthday and no Botox. She's turning 101 in January." And she attached a photo of her Nanna and it is so cute. So shout out to Charlie's Nanna.

Hannah Furst:
Aw, love that.

Joanna Flemming:
Anyway, that pretty much wraps this up for today, I think, hannah.

Hannah Furst:
Bye, guys.

Joanna Flemming:
See you next week.

Hannah Furst:
Thanks everyone for joining us today.

Joanna Flemming:
Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends. It the helps other people to discover us, and also we really want to know what you thought about this podcasts. So if you can leave us a review, that would be much appreciated.