From Laser to Laser Hair Removal, Let’s Talk About Skin Treatments for Darker Skin Tones

Raise your hand if you’ve ever looked into getting a skin treatment only to back out because you have no idea if it’s suitable for your darker skin tone. 

We hear you! Skin of colour needs to be treated with the care and respect it deserves.

So, we caught up with Dr Michelle Rodrigues, founder and director of Chroma Dermatology and expert in coloured skin tones, to get the low down on skin treatments for darker skin tones. 

Keep scrolling to find out what treatments will and won’t work on your gorgeous coloured skin.

What Gives Skin Its Colour?

First things first, it’s important to understand what causes the beautiful, broad range of skin tones that exist. 

Dr Rodrigues breaks down the science behind skin tone by explaining it all comes down to melanocytes, which are small cells that make melanin (aka pigment). Within a melanocyte there is a structure called a melanosome – and this is where the magic happens.

“Melanosomes store and transport the pigment. It is the size, density and distribution of melanin within the melanosomes that give skin its colour,” says Dr Rodrigues. 

Genetics ultimately determine a person’s skin colour and melanin level, and darker skin tones generally have more melanin than lighter skin tones. So, you can thank your parents for blessing you with your skin tone.

Does Skin Tone Matter When It Comes to Skin Treatments?

“Absolutely,” says Dr Rodrigues.

She notes a person’s skin type and genetic mix (which impacts skin tone) play a huge role in how the skin reacts to skin treatments ranging from creams and lotions through to peels and laser device treatments.

You can listen to our interview with Dr Michelle Rodrigues on this episode of the Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast below!

Is There a Particular Skin Concern for Darker Skin Tones?

One of the most common skin concerns for darker skin tones is hyperpigmentation. But just because it is a common skin concern, doesn’t mean it affects everyone in the same way.

Dr Rodrigues added, “The most important thing is to get a diagnosis first as there are over 40 causes of pigment changes on the face alone!”

With that being said, there are two common causes of hyperpigmentation: post inflammatory hyperpigmentation and melasma. But what does this actually mean?

Post inflammatory hyperpigmentation often occurs after skin inflammation like acne, eczema or even skin trauma.

“The pigment changes after such inflammation are not as prominent in those with lighter skin types and can often look slightly pink or red instead.”

Melasma is caused by genetic and environmental factors, such as exposure to the sun, and requires an individually tailored treatment plan. 

“It is believed that these pigment changes are more likely to occur in those with darker skin types because of the larger amount of melanin contained in melanosomes."

Content Creator Nkisu Machona shares the products she uses to treat dark spots for her oily skin type in the YouTube video below!

What Are the Treatment Options for Hyperpigmentation in Darker Skin Tones?

You might have heard that treatments such as peels  and picosecond laser treatments can assist with hyperpigmentation. These treatments can help to lighten the skin, leading to a refreshed, rejuvenated look.

But are they safe for darker skin tones?

Generally, it is safe for darker skin tones to use these treatments, but be sure to seek advice from a professional, because you want to make sure the right devices and parameters are applied for each treatment.

For example, when it comes to laser treatments, Dr Rodrigues notes it is possible for darker skin tones but special treatment parameters are needed.

“For pigmentation, the safest laser thus far, based on clinical research, is the 755nm picosecond laser … special settings are required to get the best results.”

Skincare ingredients such as Vitamin C or topical retinoids can also assist with hyperpigmentation by breaking up the pigment and reducing skin inflammation.

But speak to a professional first, because as Dr Rodrigues highlights, skin treatments and skincare products should be “tailored to the individual's problem and skin type.”

Speaking of Lasers, Can Darker Skin Tones Get Laser Hair Removal?

Every person with a darker skin tone has probably heard a laser hair removal horror story or two featuring a side of burns, scars and pigmentation.

Fortunately, times have changed and laser hair removal is possible for darker skin tones.

However, as with all forms of laser, “specially selected lasers are required in those with darker skin types.”

Be sure to consult with a professional as you need to make sure the right type of laser is used so it’s compatible with your skin tone and hair colour and type. 

What Skincare Products Should Darker Skin Tones Be Using Regularly?

Ultra Violette Supreme Screen SPF 50+ Hydrating Facial SunscreenUltra Violette Supreme Screen SPF 50+ Hydrating Facial Sunscreen

“The one thing that is essential for all patients with darker skin is daily use of a good broad-spectrum sunscreen to prevent pigment and ageing,” says Dr Rodrigues.

She recommends using one with a tint – you want to avoid that white cast that sunscreen can leave on darker skin. Let’s be real, it’s not a good look!

Beyond daily SPF, Dr Rodrigues reiterates a person’s skin type, skin colour and other skin issues determine what products and active ingredients they should use.

Are There Any Skin Treatments Darker Skin Tones Should Avoid?

Dr Rodrigues cautions against using intense pulsed light (IPL) and broadband light treatments for those that have darker skin tones "because it can cause pigmentation and scarring!"

In addition to IPL devices potentially causing pigmentation and scarring, she says at-home laser hair removal IPL devices are not going to be as powerful or effective as those used in dermatology clinics. 

Finally, Dr Rodrigues wants you to remember to see your doctor or dermatologist early to nip a skin problem (such as acne or eczema) in the bud so they don’t leave pigment and scarring behind.

Want more beauty content for darker skin tones? Here are some great stories from the Adore Beauty team below!


Want to learn more? Here's the transcript of our Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast episode on which laser is right for you

    

    

Dr Michelle Rodrigues joins us to demystify all the information surrounding lasers.

Beauty IQ Uncensored Episode 59 Transcript - 'Which Kind Of Laser Is Right For Me?'

    

 

Hannah Furst:
Welcome, everybody, to Beauty IQ, the podcast.

Joanna Flemming:
I'm your host, Joanna Flemming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your cohost, Hannah Furst.

Hannah Furst:
My heart is beating so fast and I was about to call you and be like, "We're going to have to not record." I got this call from a phone number and it was pre-recorded and it was like, "Hello, Hannah Furst," or something like that. It was like, "You are under a criminal investigation by the Department of Home Affairs." This prerecorded lady.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Don't tell me you fell for that one.

Hannah Furst:
I started ... I'm like, "What have I done? Has someone stolen my identity and done something?" So I called Linda straight away.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh my God.

Hannah Furst:
I was like, "Mom. I'm just got a call from the [inaudible 00:00:51]," and she goes, "Hannah, it's a scam."

Joanna Flemming:
I love that your 60 year old mom had to tell you that, that it was a scam.

Hannah Furst:
I'm now on the Department of Home Affairs and it says beware of phone and internet scams, and it says that this is a scam. But I did just hang up, but I was incredibly nervous for like one second.

Joanna Flemming:
Remember that time I was recording for YouTube and I was in the studio and my phone rang and it was from the Canadian government apparently, and they called me and said that I was under investigation and that there was a warrant out for my arrest and I was like, "What?"

Hannah Furst:
Yes! That's what it said. It said there's a warrant out for your arrest.

Joanna Flemming:
I've never even been to Canada.

Hannah Furst:
But I haven't even left the house in 12 weeks. What on earth could I have done?

Joanna Flemming:
I've got this weird throat. I went for a run yesterday. It was an unintentional one. So I was going to a house inspection, but it was only around the corner from me and I was running late. So I was like, "Instead of walking, I'll run. I can run. I can do that. It's like 800 metres." So I ran it and then I started getting all these symptoms of asthma afterwards and I've had these weird tightness in my chest.

Hannah Furst:
It's called unfitness.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Well, I thought that, but then I asked my friend who has asthma and she was like, "Yeah, that sounds like asthma." So I'm like, "Am I just unfit or do I have asthma?"

Hannah Furst:
I think you might be unfit. I've never seen you run, ever. I think we ran once at ... we were running to a fashion show and that was the only time I've ever seen you run.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Cardio fit I am not, but I have done Pilates the whole way through lockdown. So I am pretty proud of myself for keeping that up because I could have easily thrown the towel in there.

Hannah Furst:
How often do you do Pilates?

Joanna Flemming:
Three times a week.

Hannah Furst:
Wow. Look at you.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Had to keep myself in shape just in case we came out of lockdown, which didn't happen until just now. So anyway.

Hannah Furst:
What's up today's episode, Jo?

Joanna Flemming:
On today's episode, we are talking about bum and boob sweat as our cringy combo. Since we're getting into warmer weather, it seemed irrelevant. Then we're speaking to a dermatologist about all the different kinds of lasers, and of course our products didn't know we needed.

Hannah Furst:
All right. So you sent me a Slack today, Joanna, and you said to me, "Have you got any funny boob or bum sweat stories?" I honestly was like, "No," and then it came to me.

Joanna Flemming:
I knew you'd have one.

Hannah Furst:
I had all the shame and embarrassment and humiliation came rushing back to me. So can I start with this story?

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, please do.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God. So this would have been about ... Oh God. Maybe five years ago and I'd come back from overseas and I was looking for a job and I hadn't done a job interview in a really long time. I was having like a lot of anxious interviews and I would be sweating profusely. I remember I went to this one interview in a white shirt. Don't (beep) ask me why. It was a really hot, summer, Melbourne day and it was this one lovely guy who was interviewing me. So I went off into the room and the (beep) air con wasn't on, so basically my whole shirt went wet, underarms and the boobs went completely fully soaked through. I could see he was looking at me trying to keep it together and keep the interview going. I looked down and I was like, "Oh my God." He's like, "Do you want to just step outside for a minute just to cool down?"

Joanna Flemming:
How's that going to help?

Hannah Furst:
So him and I stepped out onto the balcony until I could cool down, because I was just completely ... My whole shirt was wet with sweat and my boob patches as well-

Joanna Flemming:
Were you like, "Turn the air con on."

Hannah Furst:
I came back in and I ... Look, I couldn't salvage the interview.

Joanna Flemming:
So you didn't get the job?

Hannah Furst:
No, I didn't get the job. I didn't.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, I thought that would be a given.

Hannah Furst:
I don't know why it was so humiliating, but I felt so embarrassed and I have never worn a white shirt on an interview ever since then.

Joanna Flemming:
I don't even think I've seen you wear a white shirt ever for anything.

Hannah Furst:
I thought it would look really professional, but it wasn't.

Joanna Flemming:
But maybe not on a 40 degree day. I think that the issue in Melbourne is that we're so used to cold weather and we probably wear more clothes than is necessary on a 40 degree day. But that heat is so dry and there's something about it that just makes you sweat profusely. I almost prefer humid heat to dry heat. I don't know why. I feel like I can manage my temperature a bit more in humid heat but, oh my God, the amount of times that I've sat down at a cafe on those plastic chairs on a really hot day and then gotten up and the whole state is wet, it's so embarrassing.

Hannah Furst:
I know.

Joanna Flemming:
I remember at my 21st, it was a 40 degree day and one of my really close friends was wearing a white skirt and when she arrived, we were like, "Oh, we can kind of see your undies through the skirt. Maybe just free ball it. Just take them off." So she went and took them off, and then she sat down again but because it was so hot she like sweated through her skirt and there was just a bum crack sweat line.

Hannah Furst:
She needed a pantyliner.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, and on panty liners actually, did you know that's a hack for boob sweat?

Hannah Furst:
Tell us about that.

Joanna Flemming:
So what you do is on the inside of your bra where the underwire sits, you can put the sticky part of the pantyliner onto that part of the bra so that when the sweat does drip down to that bottom part of your boob, or if that's where you gather sweat anyway, I don't have much of a fold over of boob, but if I did that's probably where the sweat would gather. So that all absorbs the sweat so that you don't get that drip underneath your boob.

Hannah Furst:
I'm going to try this out with my Aldi panty liners and I'll let you know how I go.

Joanna Flemming:
Please do.

Hannah Furst:
[inaudible 00:07:12], so it's Aldi panty liners associate [inaudible 00:07:14].

Joanna Flemming:
I actually do wear panty liners on hot days to be quite honest, because I hate that feeling of-

Hannah Furst:
Sweaty vagina.

Joanna Flemming:
Sweaty vagina. Yes. That's totally a thing, isn't it. Have you ever stood off from sitting down obviously on a really hot day and you've had this sweat drip down the back of your leg?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. To be honest, though, you know I love humidity and I love humid holidays. So to be honest, I really miss a sweaty bum and sweaty vagina and sweaty boobs.

Joanna Flemming:
Do you?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, I miss it. If we ever travel together, Jo, you couldn't do it because I don't allow the air con on.

Joanna Flemming:
No, I couldn't. I couldn't live like that.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I sleep in full ... When I go ... I'm not going to say the word. Linda said I have to stop saying the word. But when I go to the place we won't mention, she's like, "You've got to stop Hannah. It's annoying." It's annoying her now. So I have to stop. So when I go there, I just get a room with a fan. No air con because I don't need air con. I like to sleep in my own sweat.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh. See? I would've thought you'd be a person that would have air-con on. But now that I think about it, you would stay in a hostel and they probably don't have air con on offer so ...

Hannah Furst:
I don't stay in hostels anymore. I stay in bungalows. Please. I've upgraded. I'm almost 32 years old, Joanna.

Joanna Flemming:
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got that wrong.

Hannah Furst:
I can't have people having sex on the bunk bed above me. God, I'm too old for that (beep). Too old.

Joanna Flemming:
Unless it's you.

Hannah Furst:
Actually, on my last trip to Thailand, I had a gentleman friend-

Joanna Flemming:
You're not meant to say that word. You said Thailand.

Hannah Furst:
Can you start beeping Thailand out, Mandy? Every time I say Thailand, just beep it out. So when was in (beep) last time, I had a guy that I had a little romance with, the one that said I looked really glowy because I was using biology. Yeah, him. It's like the dead of night in the jungle and all these bungalows are all really close together and I just was like ... The poor people in the bungalow next to us-

Joanna Flemming:
They definitely would have heard that. Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
We had a night out. It was three in the morning and I was like ... We must've woken them up. There's no sound installation.

Joanna Flemming:
Did you walk out in the morning and just say, "Hello."

Hannah Furst:
I was a little bit embarrassed the next day because the girl was sitting on the balcony. I look fresh as a daisy.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, well that took a turn, as it usually does. So that was boob and bum sweat for you. We'd love to hear stories or submit your pics if you're listening to this on a Monday morning, because we'd love to see them. It always makes our day.

Joanna Flemming:
So today's guest is joining us from Chroma Dermatology in Melbourne. Dermatologist. Dr. Michelle Rodrigues is joining us to talk all things lasers. Welcome to the podcast.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Thank you so much, Jo, for having me on.

Joanna Flemming:
We're very excited to talk about lasers. Hannah actually sent me an email and she was like, "Can we please talk about hair laser? I need to know if the IPL device I'm using is actually working, what lasers can use on different skin tones." So we thought you'd be the perfect person to ask. So can I ask what are the most common lasers used in a skincare setting, including hair lasers?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Sure. There's really a variety, Jo, and really we can break them up based on their wavelengths. So there's the Alexandrite laser, which is 755 nanometers. That's used for hair removal, actually, most commonly. You also have Q switched YAG lasers, which has an older kind of technology or newer picosecond lasers. Usually in the order of 755 nanometers or 532 or 1064, and these are used for pigment removal, things like brown spots, freckles, and even tattoo removal. Then you have pulsed dye lasers, generally around 532, or 1064 nanometers, and they're used for redness. Things like blood vessels, capillaries and rosacea. Then you've got ablative lasers, so carbon dioxide or erbium lasers, and they use really for rejuvenation, fine lines, acne scarring, those sorts of things. What I will say is a lot of people refer to IPL as laser, but this actually is not technically a laser. It's intense pulse light, hence the IPL acronym. But that is commonly used for laser hair removal, generally speaking.

Joanna Flemming:
So in layman's terms for anyone that's wanting to treat a certain concern, what should they ask for? If they're going into a clinic, how do they know that they're asking for the right kind of laser, or should you rely on the professional to tell you that?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah, that's a really good question and I think it's really important, first and foremost, to get a diagnosis from a professional, from a dermatologist in my opinion. Then you can actually inform yourself of what the potential options are for that condition rather than the other way around. So hopefully that makes sense.

Hannah Furst:
Just if we go back to the very start, because I was trying to think ... As you were talking, I'm like, "I know the word laser, I know the word laser, but what is a laser, aside from all the different types?"

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah, yeah. Look, laser is actually, again, an acronym for light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation. Now, no one can ever be bothered saying that amount of words in one go, so hence we just refer to it as laser. Effectively, they're electronic devices that generate a single colour of light and that lot of of the laser beam is actually converted into heat and the light is actually attracted to whatever the target is. So for example, with hair, that light is attracted to the pigment within the hair follicle or the melanin. For redness, it's attracted to haemoglobin, a component of blood. And basically the heat destroys that target. So hopefully that makes sense.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, yes. My mind is blown by that acronym. I thought laser was a machine name. I thought that must be like Botox, like that was the name of the company that created the first ever device. But anyway.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, you kind of answered my next question in that answer because I was going to say laser hair removal is by far one of the best things I ever did. It saved me so much time and money over the years. I've had laser for probably nine years now. You've kind of explained a little bit about how that technology works, but can you maybe go into a little bit more detail about how laser hair removal actually stops the growth of the hair?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah, Sure. I think like you, I've had a similar experience, Jo, and I think it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. We kind of tend to think of it as being expensive and time-consuming, but when you think over time how much time were you going to spend shaving or plucking or waxing and so on. So yes, I agree with you. One of the best things I did. Let's say we refer specifically to hair in this instance. The light within the laser of the laser beam is actually attracted to the pigment within the hair follicle and that heat destroys the hair follicle. So the darker the hair, the better the response because darker hair can absorb more heat. There is a target there. White, blonde, fine hair won't actually respond to laser hair removal.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
So it's important to, A, make sure that you have intact hair follicle. B, make sure that it is coloured because you'll get a good response. I think the other thing to remember with laser hair removal is one treatment doesn't mean that it's all going to be gone forever. You actually need a series of treatments to gradually decrease the density of the hair, the thickness of the hair and the rate of growth. That generally speaking happens over about eight treatments. So as a rough guide, you could say eight treatments will help reduce hair density by about 80% in the majority of patients. Now, there are some instances where people have excess hair growth, medical conditions that cause this to occur, and the name of one of those is polycystic ovarian syndrome, which some of the listeners may be familiar with.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
So if someone has a medical condition like that, it would be a little bit more challenging because the hair, of course, would be more stubborn and you'd therefore require far more treatments on an ongoing basis. Generally speaking, the treatments are spaced anywhere between four, six or eight weeks apart, depending on the type of hair you have. With each treatment, it literally just feels like the flick of a rubber band. You don't need anaesthetic. It's not a big woo-haa of a procedure. It's pretty straightforward and afterwards you might get a little bit of redness and slowly but surely that hair follicle that has been destroyed will fall out and hopefully not regrow as thick. And then hopefully with multiple zaps, hopefully not grow at all.

Hannah Furst:
Sorry in lockdown, obviously laser has been off the cards and I was right smack bang in the middle of my laser hair removal journey. So I actually got an IPL machine to use at home. I wasn't sure like if that would still maintain the results of my laser hair removal and I had a couple of people ask me about that. So I'd like to know, first of all, if that can help sort of in between sessions, but secondly, how does the device actually compare to in-clinic machines?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah, sure. Hannah, I think the most important thing to say is what we mentioned before, which is RPL is not a laser device. So the good thing is you don't need special eyewear and goggles and all sorts of safety things around you in order to do the treatment. IPL is routinely used in retail skin clinics and beauty salons and so forth. Some of the things that it's important for listeners to understand is that IPL is not for everyone. So there are certain patient groups or skin types that should really avoid IPL at all costs, and that includes people who regularly get deeply tanned right through to people who have inherently darker skin types. So patients with skin of colour. So we're talking about darker Chinese skin types, Indian skin types, Hispanic skin types, African skin types and so on. Because at the end of the day, these IPL machines can cause darkening, scarring, pigment problems with these devices.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
So that can take many months and even years to resolve. So I think the first thing is make sure that IPL is definitely for you. The second is that IPL home devices don't actually generate the same amount of energy as in-clinic treatments would, and this is because the machines themselves are calibrated regularly, they're serviced to make sure that that energy coming out is precisely where it ought to be, and really to ensure that there's a predictable response to the laser. But unfortunately with the IPL device, you're just not going to have that sort of service or maintenance on it. I guess the other thing is it tends to be more time consuming. It's obviously filled a need during the extensive lockdown that we've had, particularly in Melbourne, but I think at the end of the day from a convenience safety results perspective, nothing can beat those in-clinic lasers or IPLS if that's right for your skin type and colour.

Joanna Flemming:
So as you've mentioned, many of these lasers target pigment, so what does that mean for anyone with a deeper skin tone? You kind of touched on that earlier. What laser alternatives are there, or are there certain lasers that are designed for trading darker skin tones?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah, definitely. I think in my opinion, those with skin of colour ... We talked about this. Middle Eastern right through to Asian and Indian skin types really need to consult, I think, with a practitioner who understands differences in skin tones before any treatments are embarked upon. We're talking lasers, LED, even clinical chemical peels need to be individually tailored to a person's skin type. If it's not, we can have detrimental effects. This is because many treatments, despite being marketed for pigment, can actually make some types of pigment worse, for example. Or laser hair removal, not necessarily for everyone. The first critically important step, I think, in successful treatment for anyone regardless of skin type is getting a diagnosis. There are so many causes of different things that look so similar on the skin that you really need to optimise the success and minimise the potential risk by getting the right diagnosis and hence the right laser.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
People aren't going to know that. They're going to have to rely on their provider to be able to advise that. People with skin of colour can have laser treatment. They don't have to look for alternate treatments necessarily. So when we're discussing, I guess, laser hair removal for patients with skin of colour, there are safe options for them. The safest wavelength for people with darker skin tones is the ND YAG, which is a 1064 laser. So the ND YAG laser is something that people should really ask for and look out for. It's the safest laser that will help reduce hair without burning the pigment on the top layer of the skin. I say this often to my patients, lasers are a bit like cars. If someone says, "Get laser done," it's like saying, "Jump in a car and take a trip." It's like, "Well, which car? What model? How fast does it drive? Who should sit in this car? Who's it made for? What's the manufacturing of this machinery like?" Those are all the questions you need to ask about laser, I think.

Hannah Furst:
As a dermatologist, what's your favourite laser treatment to perform or that you've had done on yourself?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah, both. I really, really love the PicoSure laser by Cynosure. This is really in my opinion, the gold standard picosecond laser. It was the first on the market. It brightens, it tightens the skin. It helps with acne and scarring as well. So I think it's a really, really good laser and it can be used for patients with skin of colour very safely, as long as settings are tweaked. It has a huge amount of unbiased medical research behind it and I'm a huge believer in evidence-based treatments for patients. So yeah, this is something I really love.

Joanna Flemming:
What kind of person would be the ideal candidate for that treatment?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Well, we can tweak the settings to treat a number of things on the picosecond laser because there are different laser heads that can be attached to the PicoSure device. So it could technically with different settings treat active acne, mild forms of acne scarring, hyperpigmentation, and just overall rejuvenation and collagen stimulation as well, depending on, again, the settings and the little sort of adjustments that we make to the laser itself.

Joanna Flemming:
I love hearing all of this stuff. I'm so into the new technology. Speaking of that, is there any other exciting new technology on the horizon that we should be excited about?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
The one that I'm really excited about is ... I think we mentioned earlier carbon dioxide or CO2 laser. This really is the gold standard for rejuvenation of the skin, but the trouble is no one ever wants downtime. Traditionally, the CO2 laser causes a tonne of redness and swelling. 15 years ago, when people were having laser treatments, I would go through dermatology training and think, "Oh my God, these people have weeping skin and they're having to use damp costs on their skin for such a long time." No one wants that now. Everyone wants quick, easy, minimal downtime, lunchtime type treatment, head straight back to work or catch up with the girls after work for a drink without having anyone notice that anything's happened.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
The great thing is that there's a new CO2 laser device on the market, and it has multiple settings on it that allow you to decrease the downtime depending on the patient's preference. So we can dial things up. We can dial things down, have a complete rejuvenation. Literally like a peel, but with the laser. So super precise, super quick, no downtime. So it improves fine lines, texture and just the overall appearance and luminosity of the skin. So I'm super excited about this new device. It will deliver the benefits of the traditional CO2 laser resurfacing with the ability to have that no downtime, which is great.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, as you said, like many years ago, the downtime for some of these treatments was just like ... As you said, there's people walking out with weeping sores on their face. What are some of the devices that you think are going to be just obsolete in the next five years? Are there any devices out there that people will just stop using altogether?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Well, I kind of feel that the traditional fractional CO2 laser devices will probably be a thing of the past. They served us really well for the last 10 plus years, and I've seen them in use and I've been using them in our clinics for 10 plus years. But I really think that people are moving away from that downtime. So those traditional ablative resurfacing or fractional ablative laser with really harsh settings, I think are going to be a thing of the past. I don't think that we're going to say goodbye completely to any specific laser wavelength itself because they critically target certain things in the skin. So all that we'll see happen is better technology that better selects for that particular target, if that makes sense.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God. I did have one last question. I don't know if this is a rumour ... I'm sorry, a myth, but hormonal hair on your face. Because I know that if you end up getting pregnant, the hair may grow back due to hormones. Correct me if that's wrong. So does laser hair removal on your face, if it's hormonal hair growth, does it work?

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Yeah. So if someone has a condition like polycystic ovarian syndrome and they have abnormally thick hair on the face, which is probably what you're referring to, Hannah, because that's often called hormonal hair growth.

Hannah Furst:
Right. Okay. So other hair growth's not hormonal in that case?

Joanna Flemming:
Hannah gets a few thick chin hairs.

Hannah Furst:
Not one or two, quite a few. They pop up regularly.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
It might be worth considering seeing your local GP and having a little bit of a chat about maybe cycles, other hormonal things. There'll probably be a whole bunch of questions that get asked and maybe even tests, blood tests, that have to get ordered to figure out if something is going wrong internally. Now, having said that, if you're from a cultural group that, say, Middle Eastern or Indian like myself, then maybe a few here or there you're not going to really worry about. But I think it's an important point. If you're kind of worried about it, you're thinking, "Hey, this is not usual for me and-"

Hannah Furst:
Well, it is usual because all the women in my family have it. So it probably is a cultural thing that we have thicker hair on our bodies and our faces.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
I might say, PCOS does run in families as well, so it's worth bearing that in mind and maybe having a think about that.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. We'll have a personal consultation on this show.

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Joanna Flemming:
Thanks so much for joining us today to talk all things lasers. If you want to see Dr. Michelle Rodrigues, she is at Chroma Dermatology in Melbourne. I'm sure we've got an excellent team behind you. So everyone head there for your laser treatment.

Dr Michelle Rodrigues:
Thank you so much guys. Lovely to chat today.

Joanna Flemming:
Product we didn't know we needed.

Hannah Furst:
This is not my product we didn't know we needed. This is a follow-up from a product that I spoke about. So I wanted to talk about the Dyson Corrale for very quick moment, because basically I took a machine and then we went into full lockdown and so I've just kept it at my house and I've been using it-

Joanna Flemming:
It's yours now.

Hannah Furst:
Well, eventually it will be taken away from me. Dyson, if you listening ... No, just joking.

Joanna Flemming:
No, she's not.

Hannah Furst:
So I got the Dyson Corrale and I'm going to have to give it back, and I know that. So I've been using it and that's the only straighten that I've been using and my hair is just getting thicker and healthier and it's just like ... It's so luscious at the moment. Then the other day I went and used my old hair straightener and I was just like, "Nah." I can't. I can't go back. This is the best straightener in the world.

Joanna Flemming:
What was so different about it?

Hannah Furst:
So the number of passes and the fact that it'll straighten frizzy, coarse hair. Look, I don't think someone like you would benefit from investing the money in it. But for someone like me who just has unruly, unmanageable hair that just won't do what it's told, it really works and you only have to do one or two passes. Then I tried to use another straightener and I just ... I can't.

Joanna Flemming:
So the $400 price difference is worth it?

Hannah Furst:
Dyson Coralle is 699. So I use it three times a week by 52 weeks, that's 156 times per year. Now, say you keep it for what? Five years? Let's just put a number on it. How long do these things last? I don't know.

Joanna Flemming:
I'd expect at least five years.

Hannah Furst:
Let's do five years. All right. So that is less than a dollar per year over five years.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, that's pretty good, isn't it?

Hannah Furst:
It's like the Dyson vacuums. It's just worth it. I don't know. It's so expensive. I totally get it.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. That's fair, actually. Everyone sees Dyson vacuums as being the superior vacuum.

Hannah Furst:
This is a superior straightener. Okay. So I need to talk to you about Tuscan Tan. I don't know if you've tried it yet, but-

Joanna Flemming:
I have.

Hannah Furst:
It's official. Okay. I don't know if you feel the same way as I do. I've tried a lot of tens in my time and it's the best. It's the best fake tan I've used.

Joanna Flemming:
It's very nice.

Hannah Furst:
I am going to do ... Amy actually asked me ... Amy Clark, our senior editor, she asked me to do a Beauty IQ article because I actually put it on my Instagram and she's like, "I don't really wear tan." So I will have before and afters and maybe not when this episode's out, but if you're on our email database or whatever, you'll see-

Joanna Flemming:
Sounded official. You're on our email database or whatever. Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
So I'll be doing a video and before and after, so you can see I'm telling the truth. I have never used a term that is so streak-less.

Joanna Flemming:
It's very even.

Hannah Furst:
It's streak-less.

Joanna Flemming:
And it fades beautifully as well. You don't get that like snakeskin appearance. It just fades like it's nothing.

Hannah Furst:
I feel like I've oversold it, but I can't oversell it enough. It's the best fake tan I've ever used. I'm using the multi based self tan foam. It's got three colours.

Joanna Flemming:
I think it's the one colour and you leave it on for longer.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, yeah. Right. Okay.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. So you put it on and then I think if you leave it on for like two hours, it's a light tan, four hours, medium. Overnight.

Hannah Furst:
I leave it on overnight. The only other product ... Look, I'm doing three products.

Joanna Flemming:
Relax.

Hannah Furst:
You know I don't use the fake tans on my face. I use tanning drops. So if you don't want to use the foam on your face, I mix the Tuscan Tan tanning drops, even with my moisturiser or serum.

Joanna Flemming:
I haven't used those yet. How are they?

Hannah Furst:
Beautiful colour.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. All right. I'll give them a go.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Did you say the other day I put out that Instagram story? I'd had put a little bit of foundation on, but I was really glowy. I don't deny it. I don't say that about myself very often, but I was (beep) glowing.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. Well now that you've done five products, I'm going to do one. My product is actually-

Hannah Furst:
Hey, yours is a kit. I reckon yours probably has five products in it.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, mine's actually got four products in it. So the reason that I wanted to do these one is because I still, a year later, get people sending me DMs asking when this kit is going to be back in stock. So last year I did a collaboration with ASAP and we did their Ready, Set, Glow starter kit, which is $169. It's like, what is it? $390 value. It's got all of my favourite products from ASAP in it. It's got the gentle cleansing gel, the DNA, the B and the radiance. So they're products that I used to recommend to people all the time when I was working in clinic and I still use all of them in my routine. So I did that collaboration. My face isn't on it this year, but-

Hannah Furst:
Why's your face not on it this year?

Joanna Flemming:
It's just not. We just went with the product shot. It's a bit of an outdated photo anyway, so I'm happy that my face isn't on it. It's the products, they look beautiful. But this kit is just an amazing starter kit for anybody that wants to get into cosmeceuticals and they aren't sure what to buy. All you pretty much need to add is a SPF, a moisturiser and an eye cream.

Hannah Furst:
You don't even need the eye cream, but I reckon all you would need is-

Joanna Flemming:
Because you can put the DNA around your eyes as well.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. If you did the ultra violet supreme screen, if you added that, and then all you would need is a moisturiser for nighttime.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, totally. Anyway, that's mine. I thought I would let you guys know that we do have it again. It's a Christmas set so it's limited edition again. So if you bought it last year or you missed out last year, make sure you buy it as soon as possible because that definitely will sell out. But yeah, that's my product I didn't know I needed.

Hannah Furst:
We both did ... Because I did three products and you've just done four.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, so we're loosening the rules on product we didn't know we needed a little bit.

Hannah Furst:
Do you know why? Because this time of year there's so much new stuff.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. Yes. There's so many things in that Christmas category that I'm like, "Oh, I just want to buy that."

Hannah Furst:
I'm getting a little bit over excited because I feel that I'm allowed to leave the house. Okay, Jo, I'm getting mani-pedi at 6:00 PM today. Never been so excited.

Joanna Flemming:
I'm getting a massage. I've be waiting months to have a massage.

Hannah Furst:
I couldn't choose between the massage, but I decided to go with the ... and I'm really excited for my fungus to come back on my toes because I need to get shellac again. So excited. Never been more excited for toe fungus in my whole life.

Joanna Flemming:
Anyway, we'll see you next week.

Hannah Furst:
Thanks everyone for joining us today.

Joanna Flemming:
Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends. It helps other people to discover us, and also we really want to know what you thought about this podcasts, so if you can leave us a review, that would be much appreciated.