Episode 18: Is Your Nail Salon Fungus-Free?

We're back for another episode of Beauty IQ Uncensored, brought to you by Adore Beauty

What’s on this episode? We’re glad you asked...

Before we begin this episode, we'd like to acknowledge the bushfire crisis Australia is currently facing. If you're in a position to join us in donating, organisations accepting donations include the Red Cross, Salvation Army, WIRES, Wildlife Victoria and Foodbank. Adore Beauty have pledged a $30,000 donation to the Red Cross and WIRES, as well as a paid volunteer day for all Adore Beauty staff to aid in the recovery effort.

Ingrown toenails, foot fungus & tinea:

We interview podiatrist Sarah Plummer from Kilmore & Wallan Podiatry, and discuss Joanna's unusual enjoyment of foot-related videos, whether our pedicure places are safe, and if Hannah's pinky toe is normal.

Double cleansing - do you really need to do it?

Um, yes. Well, Joanna thinks so anyway.

Types of cleansers per skin type (highly dependant on individual formula)

Products we didn't know we needed:

Jo: OPI Drip Dry Drops

Hannah: Shu Uemura Ultimate Reset Mask

Credits: 

Hosts: Joanna Fleming & Hannah Furst 

Guest: Sarah Plummer, Kilmore & Wallan Podiatry

Don't forget to subscribe & tell you friends - it helps people discover us! 

Sarah Plummer from Kilmore & Wallan Podiatry Tells Us All About Ingrown Toenails, Fungal Nail Infections and More...
Beauty IQ Uncensored Episode 18 Transcript 'Is Your Nail Salon Fungus-Free?'

 

Joanna Fleming:
Before we start this episode, we'd like to take a moment to acknowledge the enormity of the bushfire crisis Australia is currently facing. If you're in a position to join us in donating, organizations accepting donations include the Red Cross, Salvation Army, WIRES, Wildlife Victoria, and Food bank. We'd also like to thank our hardworking firefighters and volunteers aiding in the recovery effort.

Hannah Furst:
Welcome everybody to Beauty IQ, the podcast.

Joanna Fleming:
I'm your host, Joanna Fleming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your co-host, Hannah Furst. Welcome back everybody to-

Joanna Fleming:
Oh, it's a new year, new me.

Hannah Furst:
It is a new year. Ugh.

Joanna Fleming:
What was that "Ugh?"

Hannah Furst:
I don't know. What's your new years resolution-

Joanna Fleming:
She doesn't want to be here.

Hannah Furst:
Well I don't like coming back from the holidays and going back to work. Does anyone? Did you have any New Year's resolutions?

Joanna Fleming:
My New Year's resolution last year was to start Reformer Pilates. I started that-

Hannah Furst:
Oh my god, you did-

Joanna Fleming:
Okay, so I started around Australia Day last year.

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Joanna Fleming:
I've been doing it twice to three times a week since then.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my god, have you got abs yet?

Joanna Fleming:
Yes.

Hannah Furst:
Amazing.

Joanna Fleming:
I can't even tell you how much I love Pilates. It's changed my life. Anyone that wants to do Pilates, highly recommend.

Hannah Furst:
I'm not into it.

Joanna Fleming:
Pilates isn't paying me to say that.

Hannah Furst:
My new years resolution.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, what was yours?

Hannah Furst:
I don't want to talk about it.

Joanna Fleming:
What was yours last year?

Hannah Furst:
I'm trying to remember what mine was.

Joanna Fleming:
Lose five kilos?

Hannah Furst:
No. Yeah, it was probably lose five kilos last year. I've actually got my sister's wedding in Feb.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
This is me being really honest right now.

Joanna Fleming:
Okay.

Hannah Furst:
Really honest and-

Joanna Fleming:
Hit us with it.

Hannah Furst:
I actually just want to look the best I've ever looked by February 16.

Joanna Fleming:
Yep.

Hannah Furst:
That was basically it.

Joanna Fleming:
Why is that?

Hannah Furst:
Because it's my sister's wedding.

Joanna Fleming:
And why else?

Hannah Furst:
And my ex-boyfriend will be there.

Joanna Fleming:
The truth comes out.

Hannah Furst:
I don't know, I just thought turning 30, well 31, doesn't mean that your life is over.

Joanna Fleming:
No one said it did.

Hannah Furst:
I know, but I think in my head I was like, "It's all downhill from here."

Joanna Fleming:
Oh, no.

Hannah Furst:
But actually, I feel like that's not true. You know when you're like-

Joanna Fleming:
30 is the new 20, Hannah.

Hannah Furst:
You're like, "You looked better than you did at 21." I don't believe that.

Joanna Fleming:
I think I look better now.

Hannah Furst:
Well, I think I'm going to look better by February 16, 2020. You've seen the dress that I'm wearing.

Joanna Fleming:
I have, it's very nice.

Hannah Furst:
My sister was real-

Joanna Fleming:
I picked it out.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Actually Joanna did, and my sister's not happy with it.

Joanna Fleming:
Sorry Alice.

Hannah Furst:
I don't care, I'm still wearing it. All right. Sorry, what's on today's episode?

Joanna Fleming:
So we've got a special guest today, a podiatrist, because so many people messaged us asking about foot issues. So we're going to talk about that, and then we're also talking about cleansing, and our products we didn't know we needed.

Joanna Fleming:
So welcome to our next guest, Sarah is a podiatrist and she is going to join us to talk feet.

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Joanna Fleming:
Because this has been a highly requested topic amongst our listeners.

Hannah Furst:
And Jo and I don't know anything about it.

Joanna Fleming:
We don't know anything about it. So Sarah, welcome.

Sarah Plummer:
Thank you.

Joanna Fleming:
Can you tell a little bit about yourself?

Sarah Plummer:
Sure. Well, my name's Sarah. I'm a podiatrist, as you just mentioned. I practice at the Kilmore & Wallan Podiatry Clinic. So we have four clinics just on the outskirts of Melbourne, and I part own those. So I work in, and manage them. I've been a practicing podiatrist for nearly nine years now. So I've seen my fair share of feet.

Joanna Fleming:
Yes.

Sarah Plummer:
And I assure you all, it's nothing to be concerned or embarrassed about.

Joanna Fleming:
I feel like it's the one-

Sarah Plummer:
All the foot stuff is totally normal.

Joanna Fleming:
But one part of the body that most people don't have amazing feet.

Hannah Furst:
Oh you've seen some amazing feet?

Sarah Plummer:
No one has amazing feet.

Hannah Furst:
No, okay. Great.

Sarah Plummer:
I can promise you all that.

Joanna Fleming:
What about foot models?

Sarah Plummer:
And even them, really fade of fate.

Hannah Furst:
Even even Kim Kardashian gets flack for her feet.

Sarah Plummer:
Does she?

Hannah Furst:
Cause she apparently has like a thing that looks like an extra toe.

Joanna Fleming:
Oh really?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah I'll show you a pic later.

Joanna Fleming:
And I'm a big Kim fan.

Hannah Furst:
I know.

Joanna Fleming:
We'll do this in our own time.

Sarah Plummer:
I'll diagnose. I'll tell you what it all is.

Joanna Fleming:
So what are the most common feet issues that you deal with? Do you see a lot of old people?

Sarah Plummer:
Yes. Yes. But it's not all old people. So in our practice we probably say about half, half. So some of the most common stuff we see, we do a lot of skin and nail care and that's probably what a lot of the questions will be about today. Ingrown toenails is probably the most common thing that we see. In terms of other stuff, we do a lot of musculoskeletal aches and pains, so ankle pain, heel pain, that sort of thing. And heel pain is by far the most common injury that we deal with, so.

Joanna Fleming:
Okay. Can you tell us a little bit more about ingrown toenails? I've never had one. But apparently they're very painful.

Sarah Plummer:
I've had many women compare it to child birth. Yes, it can really very, very, very painful and it is so, so common. So it can range from just the most basic sort of little niggle at the corner of your toe nail pressing into the skin.

Hannah Furst:
I've had that.

Sarah Plummer:
And even that can be pretty uncomfortable.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, it is.

Sarah Plummer:
And then when it gets really bad it can get to really nasty infections and where the nail meets the side of the skin as the nail grows and, depending on the shape of our nails, genetics, pressure from footwear, the way we cut them, there's so many factors that can contribute.

Sarah Plummer:
It's when that nail will pierce off or break the skin at the side and it can be a really, really minor thing that might just need to be clipped out. But the problem is because of the location of where the nail is, our body's response to that wound is to become inflamed, which is usually part of the healing response can be a good thing, but because of that inflammation, that skin around the side of the nail gets really puffy and really red and really sore and it actually makes the problem worse. It actually, that skin almost overlaps the nail and then nail has nowhere to go but further into the skin. So pretty much got a spike of now into the skin and if we've got a break in the skin, that's when bacteria can get in and it becomes infected. So that's when it needs to be treated.

Hannah Furst:
You don't recommend people try and get that out themselves?

Sarah Plummer:
No, definitely not.

Joanna Fleming:
That's happened to me where it started. It started to like grow a little bit, but I just like then cut it and like pull it out.

Sarah Plummer:
Yeah. Listen sometimes in some cases just, you know, if it's in the very top corner, it's pretty easy to manage. And if you cut it out yourself, it can be okay. The risky is if you cut most of it out and leave a tiny little spike and then the nail keeps growing in length and that spike keeps growing and then that spike can grow into the skin. And that's what we say all the time, that it starts off with nothing. People self-treat and then they end up with other something really, really painful or potentially infected.

Hannah Furst:
That sounds really awful.

Sarah Plummer:
But it's not saying that you can't try and train yourself. It's really mild. The key thing is never cut too far. And if you're not sure, seek help.

Joanna Fleming:
I have watched some videos.

Sarah Plummer:
Of course you have.

Hannah Furst:
You're one of those. There's two kinds of people, people that hate watching it, or sickos like you. [crosstalk 00:06:32] She's a sicko!

Sarah Plummer:
What've you watched?

Joanna Fleming:
I used to follow these podiatrists-

Hannah Furst:
Of course you did!

Joanna Fleming:
Cause I love these videos and they show them like clipping out ingrown toenails. [crosstalk 00:06:45] They show the operation. And there's something that's satisfying. Is there something wrong with me?

Hannah Furst:
Yes. Yes.

Sarah Plummer:
No, I assure you there's not. I love doing them. I love doing the surgery.

Hannah Furst:
I love that you're not normal though. Yeah, you appear quite normal on this surface, but you really deep down you're not. And I think that's what I love about you.

Joanna Fleming:
Okay. Now I have a question for myself.

Sarah Plummer:
This happens every time, I can't go to a pub or party without someone saying, "Oh you're a podiatrist! Well, let me take my shoes off."

Joanna Fleming:
Every time I go to the nail salon to get my pedicure. So I have these, on my big toe, none of the other toes. Actually I've got two problems. The first one. [crosstalk 00:07:28].

Hannah Furst:
I feel like you turn every guest segment into a consultation for yourself.

Joanna Fleming:
I do! Why do you think I'm doing these podcasts? So the very top corner of both big toes. It's like a little bit yellow. And then they usually like scrape out some gunk from in there, when I'm at the nail salon. It's not much, but that I can see them just scraping out like dirt or whatever. But the little side is yellow like a little bit. That's the first one.

Joanna Fleming:
The second one is that my little toe always falls off. [crosstalk 00:07:57] toenail. Always. I can't keep that little toe there and so what they do at the nail salon usually is they like shellac my skin.

Sarah Plummer:
Actually, that's the one thing I have to say, that everyone thinks they have a weird little toenail. There's no normal little toenails. They're always the weird ones. That is that common. The fact that it keeps falling off, it's most likely due to trauma. And usually the little toenail-

Joanna Fleming:
Heels and?

Sarah Plummer:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the little toenails are on the outsides of the feet and footwear, especially women's footwear, will usually be tapered much closer than what the than what our feet actually should be. So they're usually far too tight for us. So if that's been subjected to ongoing repetitive pressure, not enough to cause pain, but day in and day out from footwear, most likely to get a little bit of damage to what's called the nail matrix, or the nail root and if gets a little bit of damage, then it can either stop growing or become damaged. The nail can start to lift and come off. So that's most likely what's happening there.

Sarah Plummer:
Not a big deal. You're not going to die or anything.

Hannah Furst:
I fell like them scraping this stuff out of your nails is normal.

Joanna Fleming:
Is that normal? Is that like a fungal thing?

Sarah Plummer:
It could be. So if there's any discoloration, especially like a Brown or yellow or even like a chalky white discoloration it could be a fungal infection. Now if it's at the very end of the toenail in the top corner, if you're going to get one, that's where you'd want it to be. Cause it's much easier to treat the further away from the base of the nail that it is. But it could be some other things as well. There's so many things it could be if it's just a little bit there and it's scraping away, it could just be where the free nail is separated from the skin and you're just getting a build up of skin and nail debris under there and it's something that's scraped away easily and that's it.

Sarah Plummer:
That's probably all it is. Could be a mild fungal infection. It could be some damage to the nail where it's starting to lift off. And it could even be other things such as psoriasis, which is a skin condition.

Joanna Fleming:
To be honest, I've had shellac on there for so long now, I don't even know if it's still there.

Hannah Furst:
I've had shellac on my nails for ages and before I started doing that I had a fungal nail infection, which was gross and it wasn't-

Joanna Fleming:
Describe it to us.

Hannah Furst:
It was like a kind of discoloration of the nail and as you said, like a chalky white kind of discoloration on the edge. I did a little bit of Googling, I was filing them down a little bit and then using tea tree oil because I tried to use rejuvenail and that didn't really do anything for me.

Hannah Furst:
And the tea tree oil fixed it and I don't usually believe in natural remedies, but that worked.

Sarah Plummer:
That is a really interesting point you brought up. So there's two things I can say to that. So what you're describing sounds like a really typical one of the few kinds of fungal nail infections you can get, but it's actually really common if you're using nail polish for a long time or over you can get this white residue that looks very much like a fungal nail infection, but it actually isn't, it's sort of like a build up of the keratin cells or drying of the keratin cells. It can happen from the acetone that's in the nail remover, so it may or may not have been a fungal infection.

Hannah Furst:
That makes me feel a bit better!

Sarah Plummer:
And it's really, really common. We see it heaps in women that just wear nail polish a lot.

Sarah Plummer:
They still just sit or-

Hannah Furst:
So do they come in to you and go, I've got a fungal nail infection. You're like, yeah.

Sarah Plummer:
And it's hard. Listen we can't say for sure, yes it is already sent based on observation cause they look so similar but that's when you can get scraping to the nail taken and getting a test and then we know how to treat it properly.

Sarah Plummer:
The tea tree oil is a really interesting one as well because that's commonly been one of our sort of go to home remedies and a lot of podiatrists and healthcare professionals have recommended it. And it's pretty controversial because in actual fact there's not really much evidence to say it does work. And there's actually, now some evidence say it can be dangerous in some cases as well. Or I mean dangerous in the fact that in some of the studies that they've done, all of the microbial properties of the tea tree can be effective like in vitro.

Sarah Plummer:
So like in their testing but not maybe not necessarily in real life on human skin and nails. But also it does react with the air. So it-

Hannah Furst:
Oxidizes.

Sarah Plummer:
Yeah. And the byproduct of that is pretty much over and over, with repeated exposure to air, can almost be like a bleach or turn into very similar to a bleach. So in that way, on open wounds and things like that can actually be dangerous. And in Europe they were looking to either ban it or put much stronger warnings on it for that reason. It's a sort of-

Joanna Fleming:
So don't use the tea tree oil [crosstalk 00:12:25].

Sarah Plummer:
A lot of people use it and have no problems whatsoever. So that makes it sound like a really big deal, [crosstalk 00:12:28] and it's an option that I'll often sort of put to patients but be very careful to say yeah, there's not much evidence they might do this and in some cases it can be, can be dangerous. So that's why they're always in a darker bottle because exposure to light and to air will actually change it.

Hannah Furst:
And it's in like a child friendly bottle as well. Don't take my advice, everybody. Seek medical help.

Joanna Fleming:
Back to pedicures. Are some nail places riskier than others?

Sarah Plummer:
Definitely.

Joanna Fleming:
Okay. Okay.

Hannah Furst:
That's a short answer.

Joanna Fleming:
What should you be looking for?

Sarah Plummer:
If you can go somewhere that you can have your own kit. [crosstalk 00:13:05].

Hannah Furst:
I go to a place that has my own kit. [crosstalk 00:13:09].

Joanna Fleming:
Mine has a printed out sign that says we use an autoclave.

Sarah Plummer:
Fantastic.

Joanna Fleming:
That's usually the big Centrifuge. It's a bomb.

Sarah Plummer:
It's where you separate blood. You should be concerned they're using that at a nail place.

Joanna Fleming:
What did I say? Autoclave?

Sarah Plummer:
Yes. Which is right. Sorry. In a podiatry clinic we would use an autoclave and we would not [crosstalk 00:13:32]. And actually that's excellent if you can find someone that uses an autoclave and can prove that they actually do it, fantastic. Or if you can use your own kit. So the problem with going to those places is if they're reusing some of the same instruments that were used on the person before you or a million people before you, is that all sorts of microorganisms you could be introducing to your feet and even if they're clean, clean and sterile, a very different things. So on autoclave means that it's actually sterilized.

Hannah Furst:
So should you ask, if you go to a nail place to see it?

Joanna Fleming:
I've never asked to see it. I just trust the sign on the wall.

Sarah Plummer:
Are they opening a fresh pack for you?

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Sarah Plummer:
If it's coming out of its own bag and like a sealed bag-

Hannah Furst:
So you should make sure that it's coming out of a sealed bag?

Sarah Plummer:
Yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, that is really good advice.

Hannah Furst:
That is really, really valuable advice.

Sarah Plummer:
Or if you're using your own kit. There's still some risk there that if you're still exposed to a foot bath.

Hannah Furst:
I was just about to say like what about the little pedicure chair?

Joanna Fleming:
My pedicure chair, it always has new plastic each time there's a new person.

Sarah Plummer:
Okay. Yeah. As many barriers as you can get between you and anybody else is the best thing. [crosstalk 00:14:45] That sounds pretty good.

Hannah Furst:
We're both going to okay places! [crosstalk 00:14:50].

Sarah Plummer:
Are they ever using anything else because one thing I've seen in some places is, even if they might use your own kit, but they still might use, like, the bur that they use to shave down your nails.

Sarah Plummer:
That still might automatically be already on the drill that they use. Whatever piece they're using on your skin should be sterile or your own.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Okay. I'm going to really pay attention next time.

Joanna Fleming:
Yep. [crosstalk 00:15:12].

Sarah Plummer:
There's a difference between clean and sterile. Definitely. And you know, clean might get rid of some bacteria, but not all. Fungus is a very resilient micro organism. So any sort of exposure, it's pretty easy to pick up.

Joanna Fleming:
What's the worst kind of fungal infection you've ever seen?

Sarah Plummer:
Oh, that's a really good question. I mean, I've seen plenty of really, really, really thick, thick, thick nails just completely come off or the worst is in really unhealthy people that there might be a wound underneath the nail if it's older, poor circulation, diabetes, et cetera.

Hannah Furst:
Do you deal with wounds on the feet and like wound recovery?

Sarah Plummer:
Yes. Yes. In a private setting we don't do a heap of that sort of stuff. If it's really bad, they end up in hospital. But yes, yes, we do see a lot of that stuff as well.

Hannah Furst:
With cracked heels. Do you get cracked heels or like [crosstalk 00:15:58] ?

Sarah Plummer:
Sometimes.

Hannah Furst:
So when you're at the pedicure place, I'm like, can you use the-

Sarah Plummer:
It's like a cheese grater?

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, a cheese grater. And they're like, no, no, no, no.

Sarah Plummer:
That's going to come from an audit path by the way.

Joanna Fleming:
It does, it does. And they're like, no, it's not thick enough. I'm like, please just do it anyway.

Hannah Furst:
Like cut my feet open please.

Joanna Fleming:
I pay the pedicure, to me it's not worth it unless you get the cheese grater on your heels.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So I've got a trick when it comes to cracked heels. So liquid gold. Or if you're not bougie enough for liquid gold. The ordinary glycocholic solution. If you don't want to use your good liquid gold on your feet. And then Egyptian magic, which is basically just like olive oil or like bees wax or something over the top of that fresh feet in the morning, put some socks on before you go to bed, fresh in the morning.

Sarah Plummer:
So is the rationale behind that with the liquid gold, is it sort of like a [crosstalk 00:16:54] debriding agents? [crosstalk 00:00:16:56].

Hannah Furst:
It's breaking down the dry skin and then you're coating it with an occlusive bomb and locking in the moisture [crosstalk 00:17:03].

Joanna Fleming:
Thoughts and feelings on that?

Sarah Plummer:
The rationale behind that is absolutely perfect.

Hannah Furst:
Thank you.

Sarah Plummer:
Dry cracked heels can be worse in certain people and we see heaps of that as well, especially this time of year. So one of the key things that we say when it gets warmer is that people are in open sandals and thongs and we're exposing it to-

Joanna Fleming:
That's why my heels got worse in the past few weeks.

Sarah Plummer:
Yes, yep, definitely. But then there's also so many other factors that make it worse. So repetitive pressure on the heels. People with higher BMI, we see it a little bit more, and as we get older, properties of the skin starts to change.

Sarah Plummer:
So think of the function of the heel. We've got a fat pad deeper to the heel, and its role is to absorb shock. So we need that skin to be quite mobile when you're ... Not by bearing on your heel, your heel looks very different when you wipe bearing, [crosstalk 00:17:49] squish out almost.

Sarah Plummer:
You need your skin to have elastic properties to deal with that. If we start to lose some of that stretch or elastic properties from our skin, it's more likely to split because of the stress on the skin. So we really need the skin to stay as hydrated as possible. As we age or other medical conditions can lead to drying of the skin, but also simple environmental factors like wearing open shoes that little bit more. So if you're prone to getting that hard dry skin, which is due to pressure as well, having it removed in some way, taking that skin off and then adding moisture back is the way [crosstalk 00:18:22] exactly what you said.

Sarah Plummer:
So debriding it, having someone debride it for you, whether that be at a pedicure place, if it's safe and clean. Otherwise a podiatrist. Don't be afraid to see a podiatrist for that sort of treatment. Don't ever go in there asking for a pedicure. You will go get the shits and hate you. But if you go for general skin and nail care, you can have that done in a safe environment.

Hannah Furst:
Do you enjoy doing that?

Sarah Plummer:
I don't hate it. It's fine. [crosstalk 00:00:18:50].

Joanna Fleming:
I feel like you've chosen the wrong career for yourself. [crosstalk 00:18:54].

Hannah Furst:
I'm not qualified but I learn very quickly.

Sarah Plummer:
Don't worry about it.

Joanna Fleming:
I just feel like you'd make a lot of noises.

Hannah Furst:
I think I'd be good at a lot of things that aren't my job, but yeah. Cool.

Joanna Fleming:
I did want to ask, what's your thoughts on Milky foot because Hannah and I are thinking of trying it. [crosstalk 00:19:17]

Sarah Plummer:
For experiment? I'd say go for it. You guys are young and healthy and it'd be safe enough to do so. I get asked. that all the time. Anyone with any sort of medical condition? Actually most people, cause it's dumb, it doesn't work. People come in pretty regularly with the aftermath of it. Just this peeling, flaking skin.

Joanna Fleming:
It doesn't stop?

Sarah Plummer:
It stops eventually. But it's not ideal.

Hannah Furst:
We're doing it.

Joanna Fleming:
Okay. Maybe Hannah can do it.

Hannah Furst:
No, we can do it together!

Joanna Fleming:
And so for experiment sake for content, absolutely going for it.

Hannah Furst:
Anything for content!

Sarah Plummer:
But if it's to actually to address your dry, cracked, heels, or callus skin do not do it. So first of all, I'm not sure of the exact ingredients, but if it's some sort of salicylic acid or something like that, if it's put on an even layer onto your skin that doesn't necessarily have even buildups of dry cracked skin, well the effects aren't really going to be ideal. You can end up attacking some healthy tissue, which you don't want to do.

Sarah Plummer:
And the excessive peeling of the skin. Yeah, people often come in, wakes line and go, what? And if you're damaging that skin barrier, you're more likely to pick up other infections like tenia, et cetera. Cause pain cause infections. Yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah. So you just touched on tenia. Can you give us a brief overview of what the hell that is and how to treat it?

Sarah Plummer:
Yes, definitely. It's a fungal infection of the skin. So pretty much the same thing as what's happening in the nails. And even in the nails, it's often affecting the skin underneath the nail and that needs to be treated as well. So any sort of exposure to that fungus. So whether that's sharing shoes or someone a shower at the gym.

Joanna Fleming:
In a hostel, Hannah. [crosstalk 00:20:55].

Hannah Furst:
I got it when I was younger and I think it was because I used to ... When you're young you use that shared pool, which I would never do now.

Sarah Plummer:
What shared pool?

Hannah Furst:
Like at school, like a public pool.

Joanna Fleming:
They're disgusting.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah! And so I think that's why I was getting it as a young teenager, but I haven't got it since then because I don't go to public pools anymore.

Joanna Fleming:
Is tenia the same thing as athletes foot?

Sarah Plummer:
Yep, yep. And that is almost definitely how you got it. So especially common wet areas, warts and [crosstalk 00:21:24]

Sarah Plummer:
Yeah, listen, the good news is it's very easily treated. And it's actually very underdiagnosed. So even back to your point about the dry cracked heels, if you're suffering with really dry feet all the time and nothing's really working, there's a very good chance it actually could be a tenia infection as well.

Sarah Plummer:
It can present in many different ways. So people often think tenia is just between the toes and it's red and itchy. And that's one very common way. Yeah, like a split between the tires or sort of the spreading rash. But it can can be all over the feet and it can be just a very mild flaking or dryness across the feet.

Sarah Plummer:
So if you're suffering with dry, cracked heels or really dry feet might even be worth using an antifungal cream to get rid of it. So treatment usually just involves any of your over the counter treatments from pharmacy. Look for anything with terbinafine in it. That works much quicker. You want to be using it for two to four weeks. It'll disappear much quicker than that, but keep using it. Fungus keeps popping up the bit quicker you get on top of it on your skin, the less likely it is to get into your nails as well. So there's definitely an overlap there with the two things.

Hannah Furst:
So many good tips, Sarah!

Joanna Fleming:
I seriously loved that.

Hannah Furst:
Can I please come into the clinic and watch like an ingrown toenail removal?

Sarah Plummer:
Yes. Anytime. Anytime. Come on down,. It is so much fun.

Joanna Fleming:
Thanks for joining us, Sarah.

Sarah Plummer:
My pleasure.

Joanna Fleming:
Today we're talking about cleansing. Very important. Ever since you've drilled it into me that I need to be cleansing. I cleanse every day, twice a day now, but there was a very long time where I didn't, I thought baby, wipes. I used to use baby wipes as a younger woman.

Hannah Furst:
So I did before I started in beauty I used to use the makeup wipe. [Crosstalk 00:23:06].

Joanna Fleming:
No, no, no, not a makeup wipe and Aldi baby wipe. I'm just like love Aldi clearly.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, are they offering sponsorship? Are you getting paid?

Joanna Fleming:
Well my mom used to buy the Aldi-

Hannah Furst:
and here we come back to Linda again.

Joanna Fleming:
Sorry. I was about to say pantyliner but she used to buy them in bulk too, but the Aldi baby wipes and we would all use those as our cleanser in my household.

Hannah Furst:
Have we all changed over or is there still some people in the household using them?

Joanna Fleming:
I think Linda, my mom, is like not 100% on the cleansing bandwagon right now.

Hannah Furst:
And Alice?

Joanna Fleming:
Alice uses liquid gold to cleanse.

Hannah Furst:
That's not a cleanser. Is she aware of that. Is she like, taking her mascara off?

Joanna Fleming:
I told her. Me and Ruby, my other sister, we both now cleanse.

Hannah Furst:
Good. I'm glad to hear that.

Joanna Fleming:
Let's talk about why cleansing is so important.

Hannah Furst:
Yes. Okay, so I particularly want to touch on double cleansing because a lot of people ask me whether it's necessary. Cleansing in general, even if you're just doing one cleanse, good on you. That's more than most people are doing.

Joanna Fleming:
You've actually said to me that you thought one of the reasons that my skin cleared up was that because I wasn't cleansing properly.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Honestly, not cleansing probably is the root of a lot of issues and a lot of skin concerns. So I think just introducing a really good cleanser to your routine and making sure you're doing that twice a day is really important. But then double cleansing when you're wearing makeup and sunscreen is also really important.

Hannah Furst:
So your first cleanse, generally I'd say use like an oil cleanser if you can or a face halo or whatever you prefer to use.

Joanna Fleming:
What about bioderma?

Hannah Furst:
You could use Bioderma as a first makeup remover cause that's essentially what that step is, is to get your base makeup, dirt, oil, sunscreen and then your actual cleanser that is tailored to your concerns can actually do what it's meant to do.

Joanna Fleming:
What is it mean to do?

Hannah Furst:
Well, it's meant to treat your concerns. So you might be using an active cleanser with AHA and BHA.

Joanna Fleming:
That's what I do.

Hannah Furst:
Yes. So I really like the ASAP daily facial cleanser for that. That's got AHA in it. I love the Murad HIB. HAX exfoliating cleanser.

Joanna Fleming:
I use the Aspect Purastat. I always thought that those exfoliating cleansers were too harsh. But the one that I use is not harsh at all.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah. I don't them harsh. It depends. Some people may be overusing them. I don't find it necessary to double cleanse twice a day. I think just cleansing with a gentle cleanser in the morning is enough. And then doing your skincare and your makeup and whatever, and then at night when you're removing heavy makeup or sunscreen and all the crap-

Hannah Furst:
[crosstalk 00:25:43] But even just the dirt and grime of the day. Do you remember when I was overseas, I used some Bioderma after a day out. It looked like I had dirt on my face.

Joanna Fleming:
I know, it's disgusting.

Hannah Furst:
You don't realize how much you build up on your face from just being outside or whatever.

Joanna Fleming:
That's what mortifies me about people wearing makeup to bed. I'm like, do you understand what's on your face?

Hannah Furst:
I've done that before. Have you ever done that before?

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, but when I was like 18.

Hannah Furst:
I would never do that now. It doesn't matter how many drinks I've had never.

Joanna Fleming:
It doesn't matter, even if I don't remember having a shower, I've had one and I've cleansed my face properly. But like an example of a cleansing routine for someone with like pigmentation concerns for example, would be using their clinic tech the day of cleansing balm as your makeup remover, as your first step and then-

Hannah Furst:
I love those cleansing balms.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, I know they're really nice and the Murad environmental shield essential C cleanser, which is basically a brightening antioxidant cleanser, which would be great for someone with pigmentation concerns, but there's lots of ways that you could tailor your cleansing routine, just as you do with your serums and your moisturizers. You can do the same with a cleanser.

Hannah Furst:
Something that someone mentioned to me the other day, which I didn't know, it was like, Oh, did you know you actually need to cleanse for 30 seconds? Is that true?

Joanna Fleming:
In some instances.

Hannah Furst:
Because when you're using a cleanser, especially if you're using like a cosmeceuticals, more expensive cleanser, you're not getting the benefits of all the ingredients. If you're just splashing it on and then taking it off.

Joanna Fleming:
I do agree with that. I basically just work it. I'm not counting to 30 in my head. I'm just working it into the skin. It might be 30 seconds, it might be 15 seconds, but I'm allowing it a bit of time on the skin, especially if using something with AHAs or BHAs in it, you want it to be actually able to do something. Even if they're botanical ingredients, you still want that to be able to have an impact.

Hannah Furst:
So do you think with people that are having breakouts, they might not be cleaning their skin enough or? [crosstalk 00:27:35].

Joanna Fleming:
It totally does.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, it totally depends on the individual with the skin concern. I think with some forms of acne and breakouts, there certainly is an element of hygiene there and maybe not cleansing their skin properly or regularly enough or with the right product. Think maybe a lot of those people are in a similar boat to you where you were experiencing breakouts, but as soon as you started cleansing properly, you were like, Oh, my skin's cleared up.

Hannah Furst:
I just think it was an alchemy of a few different things, but definitely I wasn't aware that all of that, particularly someone like me that has oily skin and all my pores getting blocked. I can understand now why I was breaking out.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, and just changing a cleanser isn't going to get rid of acne. It's a holistic approach. There's a lot of things to look at, but yes, there is sometimes a hygiene element there.

Hannah Furst:
Yes, very hygienic now.

Joanna Fleming:
So something that I get asked a lot about is the types of cleansers too. What type of cleanse are you using at the moment?

Hannah Furst:
I am using an exfoliate, no gel.

Joanna Fleming:
There are types of cleansers that are more suited to each skin type but this is a highly dependent, again, on the individual formula, so it does depend on the ingredients that are actually in the product, but as a general rule a foaming cleanser is great for combination to oily skin. For example, the Clarens gentle foaming cleanser is really good for that. A gel, like my fav, I've used the ISEP gentle cleansing gel for years. I recommend that for all skin types and oil, as we said, is a great makeup remover. Are you using a cleansing oil? Or, you like a balm.

Hannah Furst:
I have a balm. I either take my makeup off ... It depends on how lazy and how late it is. I either use the Bioderma, micellar water or I use the Estee Lauder micro cleansing balm. But what I didn't know, which I know now is that your face has to be dry.

Joanna Fleming:
Yes. It does.

Hannah Furst:
It doesn't work. Yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
I think a lot of people don't realize that with oil balms.

Hannah Furst:
The oil and the water, it just slips off your face.

Joanna Fleming:
And it goes really milky. When you are using an oil cleanser and oil cleansers are excellent for removing makeup, but they're also suitable for all skin types, including oily. They're particularly good for dry skin types because they help to replenish the skin.

Hannah Furst:
I have a funny story on that because I was using the purity, is it the cosmetics purity? I had it in my shower. This is before I knew anything, so I just started adore and I got a sample of it and I started using it.

Hannah Furst:
I was like, this stuff is so shit.

Joanna Fleming:
That is what you said about tubing mascara. What do you have to say about tubing mascara?

Hannah Furst:
I'm really, really sorry.

Joanna Fleming:
Just a tangent. I am going to go back to cream cleansers, but let's just touch on this.

Hannah Furst:
Sorry. I said to Joanna the other day, I was like, I feel really bad. I said on the podcast that I hate tubing mascara, guys, I love it. So what happened was because my skins mean so oily for summer, my mascara runs down my face and I just didn't think that all the reason that I should be using tubing mascaras to stop that. It's been amazing. I've had to perfect the removal. Yes. That's probably the main issue.

Joanna Fleming:
Which I did say.

Hannah Furst:
I was like, it doesn't come off.

Joanna Fleming:
But a cleansing balm doesn't get it off either.

Joanna Fleming:
It's warm water and you just gently pull at your lashes.

Hannah Furst:
Sorry guys, I'm really sorry. Like I know when I took this [crosstalk 00:30:56].

Joanna Fleming:
So if you threw your tubing mascara out we apologize. Hannah actually does like it.

Hannah Furst:
And I actually do, I will say I use the Estee Lauder tubing mascara.

Joanna Fleming:
Anyway. Now back to cleansers. So the last one I want to talk about was cream cleanses. So these are best for normal to dry skin. I quite like the core organics cream cleanser. That's a cult fave as well. That's a really nice cleanse up. But yeah, that sort of breaks them down by skin type.

Hannah Furst:
Wow. That was all very interesting. I feel like I knew most of that for once.

Joanna Fleming:
Did you though?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I didn't know the types of cleansers per skin type, but all those things like oil having ... I've trial and errored to get to this point. Where I now know.

Joanna Fleming:
So, oil on dry skin if you're trying to remove makeup, that's our pro tip.

Hannah Furst:
And I actually didn't just mention there, I was like it was shit, but I wanted to say that I wasn't using it properly because [inaudible 00:31:46] is good. I just wasn't using it properly.

Hannah Furst:
Products we didn't know we needed. So, what's yours?

Joanna Fleming:
My product I didn't know I needed this week is the OPI drip dry drops.

Hannah Furst:
Drip dry drops.

Joanna Fleming:
So these changed my life. So I normally get shellac but I decided to have a break recently cause my nails was starting to get really wake and breaking. And so whenever we've had events on I've had to paint my own nails and these drops are honestly the best thing ever. If you do your own manicures at home, they dry your nails, like touch dry, in 60 seconds. You can pick your bag up equally amazing. No, I'm serious. These drops are honestly the best. If you paint your own nails or you always do it at the last minute and you're like heading out the door and you always smudge them, you need these. They're honestly the best.

Hannah Furst:
Do you have something? This is just something I need. My nails are so effed at the moment, so I'm getting bloody nails. Today I've got this bandaid on because it was so weak and I started pulling-

Joanna Fleming:
Like, the nail?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. And then it ripped off and started bleeding. What would you recommend for that?

Joanna Fleming:
You could get the OPI nail strengthener. I've had that one. That's what I was using while I was trying to raise strength in my nails. I got about a two month break.

Hannah Furst:
I've had to give up SNS and shellac because they crack and they chip because my nails are so weak.

Joanna Fleming:
My nails are really flexible so I can't get SNS anyway, because it snaps.

Hannah Furst:
Well I've had to give it up. I have these awful nails so I wanted to strengthen them first and then I can go back and get shellac.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, we've got heaps of nail strengtheners.

Hannah Furst:
Okay.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, just search the nail [inaudible 00:33:29]

Hannah Furst:
I just use these podcasts to ask you questions.

Hannah Furst:
This is like genuinely what happened to me recently so my hair has been ridiculously dry. You've probably noticed. It looks like straw. And the reason I think it looks like straw is because I've gotten so good at curling it, I'm now using hot tools, [crosstalk 00:33:54] Have you noticed my hair is always amazing.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, I have actually. Yeah, I noticed you've been curling it more.

Hannah Furst:
I probably curl it like two or three times a week. And I don't always remember to use a heat protector. And can a heat protector really protect it that much from like 230 degrees?

Joanna Fleming:
If you're killing your hair every day, it's not going to like completely protect it.

Hannah Furst:
So I've been doing that more and my hair has felt like straw, like it has been really hard to straighten. So if you notice today, it's really soft. Now the reason is I'd stopped using the Shuar Moreau ultimate reset mask. So what happened was I initially gave this to my sister to try, she had that white blonde straw hair. We both have frizzy, dry hair and she was like, it's $68 and she was like, honestly, I will pay that much for this mask. And so then I started using it when I dyed my hair. It is like, it really, really works.

Joanna Fleming:
What's in it?

Hannah Furst:
So it features extracts from the highest quality rice sauce from, Hojo, Japan fame for their naturally enriched rice fields.

Joanna Fleming:
Hannah, are you reading this? She's reading.

Hannah Furst:
Rice has been used for centuries.

Joanna Fleming:
Don't trust her.

Hannah Furst:
By these women for its soothing, hydrating properties. Anyway, it's also got vitamins, antioxidants, minerals and the thing about it, which I actually read on the site, just going really well.

Joanna Fleming:
She likes the mask. It's really hydrating.

Hannah Furst:
It's really different to any other mask. I'll be honest, and it's actually worth 68.

Joanna Fleming:
You should've just said that.

Hannah Furst:
You asked what was in it, I tried to give an answer. So most of the time I would say I would never spent $68 on a mask. But it is worth it in this case because if I'm going out on the weekends, I wash my hair on Thursday, use this mask. My hair dries really soft and then I'm able to straighten it and curl it without it being dry and straw like. So I would really highly recommend this if you have very heat damaged or dry hair.

Joanna Fleming:
Or Hagrid hair.

Hannah Furst:
Hagrid hair like me, but usually my hair, if it's not super damaged, I can still straighten it up. Sleek. Yeah. It is not looking sleek at the moment. Yeah, it's lacking sleekness. So, highly recommend that one.

Joanna Fleming:
Anyway, we're really happy to be back from holiday.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, we love it.

Joanna Fleming:
I love it. No, we do, we love it. I do like holidays. I'll be honest with you. Sometimes I go on holidays and I'm like, wow, I love not working. See you next week, guys!

Hannah Furst:
Thanks everyone for joining us today. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends. It helps other people to discover us, and also we really want to know what you thought about this podcast, so can you leave us a review? That would be much appreciated.